The Drum
By ABC's Jonathan Green
Prime Minister Julia Gillard: "(The Government has a plan) to stop foreign workers being put at the front of the queue with Australian workers at the back".
Media/football identity Eddie McGuire: "Get Adam Goodes down for it do you reckon?"
So where does it come from, this simultaneous sense of shame and licence over racism in this country?
Our twin capacity to tolerate a political discussion that fixes on stopping the boats and Aussie jobs while generating storms of righteous indignation over high-profile instances of racial abuse and denigration?
In all the suddenly inward looking wonder since a single hurled syllable from an irate 13-year-old set off this latest pricking of the national racial conscience, the role of our leaders has been all but ignored, the critical mood set by those who would guide, inform and govern us.
How can we be so detached from what is one of the ugly realities of Australian democracy: that there are votes in a subtle dog whistle to racist sentiment, that an appeal to xenophobia or worse is at the very core of some our most significant and constant national discussions.
What else is at the heart of the bipartisan embrace of our cold-hearted policy aimed at resisting the arrival of refugees from war, hunger, poverty, oppression and simple fear? Policy that masks an appeal to a suburban distaste for an imagined invading mass of 'others' with pious mouthings over the safety of lives at sea and noble distaste for the 'evil trade' of people smugglers.
We value the assumed order, dignity and righteous process of 'the queue'.
We honour the now timeworn maxim: "we will decide who comes to this country and the circumstances in which they come". But surely we also sense the darker truth at the heart of this discussion: that there are votes in pandering to xenophobia and outright racist loathing and fear.
It's the sentiment that lies in the populist pit Kevin Rudd feared when he warned of a "race to the bottom" in refugee policy. This issue in our politics is a comprehensive failure of vision, execution and communication … and has been prosecuted with an eye not to the realities of global human movement, but against the prejudices of a populist rump, voters whose preconceptions of asylum seekers as disease-laden, terror-tainted, queue jumpers have been pandered to by successive administrations.
Why? Because it has been a political convenience to do so.
Watch the recent parliamentary rhetoric, from Coalition spokesman Scott Morrison who railed against the ASIO "light touch" that has allowed the ready egress of boat-borne 'jihadists', to Werriwa MP Laurie Ferguson who challenged the PM on Tuesday to make plainer the ALP strategy for arresting the flow of refugees.
Without more sound and fury waged against the tide of boats and their fearsome cargo, the ALP would be 'dead' in western Sydney, clearly the heartland of national concern over questions of orderly migration.
And all of this dark heat around an issue that is essentially a fabrication created for purely political purpose. The trickle of boat-borne arrivals does not by any objective international measure constitute a crisis. What it does constitute is an opportunity to rake fear in a sometimes xenophobic and insular public.
And it's not just in migration that exploiting a sense of racial disquiet can be a political positive.
What else other than a subtle racist underlay could have enabled the quickly imposed apartheid of the NT intervention, policy at first carried out by our armed forces under the cover of a suspended race discrimination act and that years later still leaves citizens innocent of any offence other than their race with limited control over their own income and the most mundane details of their daily life.
We should think on this when we wonder how it is that somehow, weirdly, inexplicably, racism seems so ever present, such a purulent constant under a thin scab of well-cultivated, sometimes cynical, civility.
And it is of course too quick and easy to blame our politicians for the populism that uses the community’s darker instincts as an easy path to votes.
Politics is nothing if not a mirror of the society it serves … that it, in every sense, represents. We provide the clay they work with.
If there wasn't a vote in hate, fear and prejudice then there would be no gain in pandering to any of them. The great Australian shame is that not only are there votes to be had here, but that this is the heartland in which our political game is lost and won.
The likes of Eddie McGuire aren't even a pimple on its backside … and in many ways the star chambers that assemble around these public transgressions just blind us to the greater reality of a public whose blind-peeping anxieties breed an agenda that turns that suburban fear to populist political profit.
Jonathan Green is the presenter of Sunday Extra on Radio National and a former editor of The Drum.
awake:
06 Jun 2013 8:11:15am
Brilliant. Just brilliant
If they worked with the disabled, under priviledged, people with all sorts of challenges including refugees "boat people" the bulk of Australian people might just understand.
However most avoid any contact like the plague. Fear is the key - inbred fear.
Jonathan you have hit the nail on the head.
Helvi:
06 Jun 2013 9:38:37am
I have been disappointed with the ABC lately; I have been waiting and hoping for someone to write a brave article like this. Thank you Jonathan Green , thank you ABC.
Sceptical Sam:
06 Jun 2013 12:26:36pm
Brave article my foot!
It's yet another article from a sanctimonious ABC left leaning hypocrite who doesn't know the difference between jocular banter and prejudiced racism.
It's the ABC's left leaning political correctness machine in full swing. It's time the likes of Jonathan Green and all the Labor Party fellow travellers understood that most of us can comprehend the difference between the two positions.
Green's article is nothing more than dirty left-wing politics dressed up in the grubby clothing of hypocrisy.
Id:
06 Jun 2013 2:59:37pm
I am 86 years old. When I was a boy I was encouraged to hate the "Square-headed Germans".At school we were encouraged to despise the "Catholic Mick" school next door,and to fight the kids when possible.
During my Army service I was told the Japanese were descended from a race emanating from the inbreeding of Chinese and monkeys.
Throughout the war,and for some years afterwards we called Italians and Spanish "Dagos".
We then learned to despise the Balts and had years of anti-Russian hatred under Menzies and the Liberals. Then it was the Muslims.
I hear over and over again the fifty/sixties using racist expressions. The "boat people" are now the villains.
Australians are probably the most bastard race on Earth.There isn't a single "pure white" in the country How can so many put on such a superior act.
There is no wonder thirteen year olds make racist remarks or throw sandwiches at our Prime Minister.
The little brats learn it from home,mostly from the parents.
All a "bit of a larf" was it?
Tax U Bet:
06 Jun 2013 8:35:10pm
I hope you get a century, we don't need to lose people like you " Id!
Chookman:
06 Jun 2013 9:37:58pm
Well expressed and oh so truthful. I am 60 years old and despair at the vilification that occurs in a country full of migrants and their descendants. My forebears arrived here in the 19th century - so I am descendant of migrant stock, like all, except the original owners who have had a problem with boat people in the 1770s and ever since.
chalkie:
07 Jun 2013 6:32:37am
Multiculturalist hypocrisy betrays its central flaw: attacking anti-migration views while still saying that a lot of migrants had a bad effect on Aborigines. Either praise the 1770 migrants for adding diversity and richness to aboriginal life or concede that not all migrants (or refugees) make a positive contribution to the host society.
Nah- easier to keep the racist valorisation of one type of migrant while vilifying another, all the time seemingly unable to see why why are increasingly held in contempt.
Mycal:
06 Jun 2013 4:31:21pm
"that most of us can comprehend the difference between the two positions."
Well clearly Sceptical Sam a lot of can't so why didn't you enlighten us? I mean what is the difference?
The fact that you didn't offer any reasoned response, just a diatribe, tells me you either don't have an argument to refute Jonathan's article and it makes you guilty or you are to clueless to understand it.
danny:
06 Jun 2013 4:33:12pm
So compasion, at whatever cost, is left wing?
Hmmm interesting.
Mr shark:
06 Jun 2013 7:29:08pm
Danny, how many conservatives here show much compassion? Most of the liberals in parliament who did have a caring attitude have either retired or failed to retain their preselections. There are probably a few who secretly do care but they are to scared to speak up. SO, yes, in general those of the middle left tend to show more compassion or empathy in my experience .
antipostmodernism:
06 Jun 2013 12:52:03pm
Helvi:
This is not brave. Jonathon peddles this same theme over and over for a living. It is also the unofficial position of the ABC. He also protests racism by being er racist. A brave person would be addressing the uncomfortable truths about Islam or Aborigines. This is feelgood, ideological junk.
dubious the third:
06 Jun 2013 2:36:04pm
and what then of the uncomforable truths about the illegal settler state that continues to benefit from the dodgy deeds of the past, without recompense to the victims?
That Guy:
06 Jun 2013 9:56:45pm
I thought tax free royalties, tax free proceeds from the sale of artworks (meaning you can still 'sign on' at Centrelink despite your income as it is all under the carpet), preferential housing, health care and educational set ups, preferential treatment and quotas when going for jobs, huge attempts in areas such as mining to employ Indigenous workers, massively subsidised welfare service towns where they can live in squalor to their hearts content cushioned from the realities of mainstream society and endless buckets of money thrown at Indigenous specific programs (but woe-be-tide any racist stuff that ISN'T in their favour) would all count as recompense to the 'victims'. All bankrolled by the guilt trip gravy train.
Maybe sitting resolutely in the stone age for millennia wasn't such a great idea after all. Kind of hard to mount a resistance to a modern nation without so much as a polity beyond the local clan elder.
Rage against the march of time as much as you will. But you can't expect everyone to share your enthusiasm for a steaming hot pile of guilt for dinner every day.
bobtonnor:
06 Jun 2013 4:11:19pm
er, so what is the 'uncomfortable truth'? that our largest neighbour is a democratic Islamic state and every time ive been there the people have been wonderful, friendly and courteous, and that Kirby basically stated that this country was stolen from its indigenous people and if it wasnt for the problems that would be caused it should be given back? Whats uncomfortable about that? Id support it, any reason why you wouldnt?
Mycal:
06 Jun 2013 4:32:25pm
" A brave person would be addressing the uncomfortable truths about Islam or Aborigines"
So I guess the reference to the "NT intervention" passed you by then?
antipostmodernism:
06 Jun 2013 7:44:46pm
I did address this in a previous post. The NT intervention was a necessary response to dysfunction caused by decades of leftist ideology of separatism (apartheid) that continues to this day. In plain english - aboriginals are treated differently based on race, and not need. The intervention is to make sure that women and children have the same rights as every other Australian. This is called equality, and is anti-racist. What's wrong with that?
rumpole:
07 Jun 2013 8:09:24am
"Leftish ideology of separitism" ?
=========================
Who are you kidding ? Are you saying Hitler was a lefty by separating the Jews, or the Nationals in South Africa were lefties for separating the coloureds ?
Apartheid is a right wing mechanism for making sure the great unwashed don't interfere with the operations of the elite.
You have a very strange view of the world I'm afraid.
sparhawk0:
07 Jun 2013 8:59:53am
Ah, so the "uncomfortable truth" is we just need to treat Indigenous Australians and Muslims like privleged white people, and that should solve the problem. If they act like "us", talk like "us", think like "us"and walk like "us", that makes it much easier to pretend they're the same as "us", and not have to worry about the hideously xenophobic implications. And if they don't become like differently-hued clones of the White Anglo-Saxons who control all the power structures they live within, we just take their rights away from them until they comply. Why would anyone think that's racist?
Andrew Thomas:
06 Jun 2013 1:16:34pm
I second your motion Helvi. This is not a left or right issue as many will argue, its a human issue.
Good for you Jonathan Green. And you too Aunty.
Id:
06 Jun 2013 3:06:43pm
Don't let us forget that the Celts originated in India.Everybody has a "touch of the tarbrush".And don't forget also when the Torres Strait Islanders first saw "white people" they thought they were the ghosts of the dead.
It:
06 Jun 2013 7:30:39pm
Id, sure, sure, we all come from somewhere else. How far back do you want to go though - ever heard of drawing lines in the sand? At some time these people here are Australians (or Irish or whatever) and those people there are not. Boundaries exist for a reason.
rufus t firefly:
07 Jun 2013 6:33:06am
IT - 'Boundaries exist for a reason'
That reason being a historical anachronism, no longer relevant in an economically, socially and environmentally integrated and globalised world. Time to join the 21st century. 19th century nation states are long past their use by date.
Jeanette:
06 Jun 2013 4:07:51pm
Well said Jonathan. I hate the point scoring/contest on asylum seekers. The Australian Government needs to abide by its international obligations and care for these people, as well as educate our community on the true plight of the refugees. The Opposition needs to stop the scaremongering tactics appealing to xenophobic tendencies.
KK:
06 Jun 2013 7:07:30pm
We do more than abide by our international obligations which is why we have so many country shoppers here.
It is not xenophobic to want only the genuinely needy to be accepted as refugees.
pandora:
06 Jun 2013 7:41:12pm
Over 90% of those arriving by boat seeking asylum ARE found to be refugees. Sounds pretty needy to me.
Mycal:
07 Jun 2013 12:20:41am
"It is not xenophobic to want only the genuinely needy to be accepted as refugees."
Perhaps but refugees are generally people fleeing political persecution, we frown on "economic" refugees.
Pat:
06 Jun 2013 4:18:29pm
This is indeed a human issue, Andrew Thomas. Now let's learn more, as so often, by analogy: You and yours and I and mine are on a vessel on the sea of life. A nearby vessel on our journey has sunk and there are many people, of the left, of the right, from the centre and independents, treading water and crying for help. How many can you and I take aboard before the vessel we are one will sink?
Annie:
06 Jun 2013 8:15:16pm
It's the infrastructure isn't it and water. Australia can only hold as many as it can provide for which includes all the animals, trees and plants, not to mention the fishes and the coral reef.
Judy Bee:
06 Jun 2013 2:04:31pm
Helvi,
Yes, this is a timely article. We need to self-relect in Australia, examine our attitudes and be honest about the level of racism that exists. It seems to be just beneath the skin of most Australians, and only a brave few would admit to it.
It is a human issue. And P C actually means Personally Concerned. We have to re-define the term.
barsnax:
06 Jun 2013 7:11:59pm
Judybee yours is the best and most honest post I've read.
If only all Australians could be more open to helping people that come to our shores.
At the end of the day I still think Australia is a good hearted country, it just disappoints me we still have politicians in this country that use racism to win elections.
GrumpyOldMan:
06 Jun 2013 4:23:59pm
I agree completely Helvi. Congratulations and thanks to Jonathan Green, and raspberries to SS and APM. They know not what they say!
Tombowler:
06 Jun 2013 9:41:03am
I've acted for many of these economic refugees when I worked in the horrible field of plaintiff law; I understand why they came here, but for the better part, they aren't refugees.
Much of their supporting documentation come from places like the 'Free Iranian Embassy' in London which issue letters saying that the bearer lobbied for them in Iran when, in fact, they did no such thing and simply respond to all requests in the same manner; the organisation exists for this very purpose.
Perhaps if you spent some time up North, you'd understand why the intervention was necessary. The rape and indeed sex trade of children, domestic violence and substance abuse are intractably present and it's an utter disgrace that lefty idealism prevents the action needed.
Chris Graham:
06 Jun 2013 10:24:00am
Crap Tombowler. The intervention has made things demonstrably worse. School attendance - down. Suicides and self harm - through the roof. Violence - Up. Overcrowding - at record levels. And 90 percent of boat arrivals are found to be genuine refugees. You sir, are precisely what this article is talking about.
Joe:
06 Jun 2013 1:26:59pm
Expensive oil has made things demonstrably worse for our remote indigenous communities. In fact it has done this for all remote communities.
Lydia:
06 Jun 2013 1:29:55pm
Chris Graham, easy to type numbers, please include some references.
Chuffy:
06 Jun 2013 3:21:21pm
More detailed information can be found at:
http://www.aph.gov.au/About_Parliament/Parliamentary_Departments/Parliam...
You'll be pleased to see that the above document has lots of references too.
Enjoy.
John:
06 Jun 2013 1:36:30pm
Wrong, Chris. 90% of illegal arrivals are not found to be genuine refugees.
They are accepted into Australia on the "we cannot prove you are not genuine" as opposed to them proving that they are genuine.
That is why they go to such extreme lengths to destroy passports and identification, refuse to enter Australia legally and lie to, obstruct and mislead Australian migration officials.
Jayden C:
07 Jun 2013 8:55:19am
That's not true at all. The obligation is on the refugees to prove they are genuine and a huge number have been tortured and killed as a result of being incorrectly returned by Australia.
GRF:
06 Jun 2013 1:40:30pm
On the contrary, Tombowler gives not just the impression of one who not only has first hand experience of the realities of the situation but also the maturity and insight to face up to reality; in stark contrast to the author of the piece and many of the respondants.
big joe:
06 Jun 2013 2:51:04pm
CG, the intervention was put into place to try and curtail the very things you highlight, it has failed to a degree because it has moved most of the problems away from the communities and into the towns. Still, I challenge you to come up with a better strategy as in some cases it has had a benificial effect in some of the communities. As for your statement that 90% of illegials have been found to be genuine, please tell us how if 87% are destroying their documentation how are they being found to be genuine?
That Guy:
06 Jun 2013 8:03:49pm
Chris, the very assertion that the intervention has made things demonstrably worse is a little hard to swallow. Lets go through the list of your points one by one.
School attendance down you say? Was there ever much school attendance anyway? Would you like to know how often I've had grandparents bring in teenage grandchildren to act as their interpreters due to their paucity of English. Come on, school attendance could hardly get lower. And if parents can't be bothered caring for their childrens education a) why have them and b) how is that the fault of the intervention. More likely the intervention as brought more cases of such latent child abuse to light.
Suicide and self-harm through the roof? I've never seen any figures showing how more funding, health checks and infrastructure could possibly cause that. Again, the greater funds thrown at the problems meaning more accurate reports are now being made is probably the main reason for the higher numbers. The endless sexual abuse, massive ganga use and its attendant mental health problems and a realisation during the teenage years of these people that they an entire lifetime of squalid living ahead of them is probably the main cause of suicide and self-harm, not the extra funding given to schools etc.
Violence - well for that you can see my above point.
Overcrowding - Given the amount of money channelled into housing in the remote areas through programs like the SIHIP programs it is hard to take your assertion seriously. Maybe if any time a house became empty it wasn't randomly destroyed that would help. And nobody is forcing people who can't provide a decent home for their offspring to continue to have them. Endless breeding in tiny community towns that often have no logical reason to exist economically coupled with a refusal to bother getting your children educated which then traps them into living in a town with little or no prospects - which in turn means they breed relentlessly at a young age - is perhaps more the reason for overcrowding. I fail to see how it is the taxpayers duty to endlessly enlarge ghetto 'welfare service towns' just to accommodate the lifestyle choices of a tiny percentage of the population.
TPG:
06 Jun 2013 8:50:16pm
The federal parliament has been inundated with the conservatives going on about "The Egyptian" every day, this person is called a "convicted terrorist a jiharist/murderer" etc.
The Egyptian was "red flagged" by Interpol on information from the Egyptian government okay?
This man was trialled and convicted "in desentia" he wasn't defended...he wasn't in court?
Egypt is "Hotel California for cruel and unusual punishment" it is where the USA and its allies sent prisoners to be interrogated during its days of war in Iraq/Afghanistan!
So the opposition have used the whole week on this one man...they forget to say he has a wife and six children (6)? You would think the conservatives (packed with folk with law degrees) would have questioning minds...maybe this bloke is scared for his/family's lives?
The conservatives doing a "jihad" on a fair go and being pure opportunists...no other facts have been bought forward...just The Egyptian Terrorist!
Aced Alright:
06 Jun 2013 11:06:32am
Thanks for writing the truth as I knows it too, and am amazed that the ABC put your post up. Congrats ABC.
antipostmodernism:
06 Jun 2013 1:56:04pm
Aced Alright
Ok, I am willing to suspend reality for a moment to accept that white Australians mostly racists. Logically then, if we are that mean, selfish, and unwelcoming, then mass NESB immigration cannot possibly lead to a harmonious society, and therefore we should not accept them.
I suspect however that helping others allegedly in need is only part of the program. I think whiteness is being punished and must be eradicated from the planet to atone for sins like success and capitalism. This will magically lead to global racial harmony. This is the natural conclusion to the cult of otherness - racial and cultural suicide. ie cannot rationally discuss difference like adults in a return to pre-enlightenment mysticism and irrationality.
Mr shark:
06 Jun 2013 7:35:02pm
ACed, ANy other new world order global conspiracies you would care to lay on us mate.? It's been a tough day , I could do with a good laugh ....
Tristan:
06 Jun 2013 11:19:31am
Let's also not forget Australia's appalling record of Aboriginal deaths in custody, especially in the NT and Qld, Northern Territory's mandatory sentencing laws, and the ABC 4 Corners case of the Aboriginal elder transported in searing heat in an unconditioned van for 5 hours.
Let's also not forget how the Coalition gives lip service to helping indigenous Australians, but artificially inflated the amount they spent on indigenous spending, and the Liberals Dr Mark Roberts threatened to slash spending - "cut the throat", lied and then tried to bribe Peter Van Onselen with a promise to leak information about the Liberal party.
Then there's the history of mining companies ripping off indigenous Australians with exploitative mining contracts.
Big Nana:
06 Jun 2013 2:56:36pm
Never let facts destroy a good argument eh! If you actually bothered to read the "Deaths in Custody" data, you would see that black people have never died at a higher rate than whites in custody and the last survey showed blacks are LESS likely to die in prison than whites.
Mycal:
07 Jun 2013 12:46:40am
Big Nana I have seen the data, albeit not the recent stats, but what I have seen refutes your assertion. The data I saw also indicated a much higher incarceration rate for aboriginals, both in terms of the proportion of the population and in terms of the type of offence.
You may be right, although I doubt it. If you are right it can only be in terms of recent data, probably as result of the "deaths in custody" report. If you make these assertions you need to cite your sources.
rufus t firefly:
07 Jun 2013 6:42:16am
Mycal - the original deaths in custody report found a much higher rate of incarceration for aborigines (particularly in WA), and identified institutional racism as the primary reason for this, and, because of the higher numbers there were also higher absolute numbers of deaths (hence the report) but Big Nana is correct, there was not a higher rate of aboriginal deaths in custody compared to other ethnic groups. In fact it was slightly lower than the average (when the report was produced back in the 1990s) and is lower again today - due to measures taken as a result of that report.
Righto:
07 Jun 2013 6:32:03am
Never let facts destroy a good argument eh!
If you had bothered to actually read the "Deaths in Custody"data you would see the black people die in custody at a higher rate then non-Aboriginal people.
Between 1980 and 2007 Aboriginal people made up 18% of all deaths in custody, but only make up 2.3% of the population.
John Coochey:
07 Jun 2013 8:20:25am
That is a great misuse of statistics. The issue is not comparing the black deaths in custody with the proportion of aborigines in the general community, it is the ratio within the prison system. There is a much greater proportion of blacks in custody than their numbers in the general community because they are incarcerated more because they commit more crime. Now the reason for the criminality can be debated, the level cannot.
mack:
06 Jun 2013 3:41:11pm
Interesting comment, Tristran, about "Australia's appalling record of Aboriginal deaths in custody, especially in the NT".
Beth Price (Google her) recently made a speech on the floor of the NT Parliament (Google that too, May 2013), in which she stated that what you white boys from the big city were never told about "aboriginal deaths in custody" was that the rate of deaths of young aborigines was greater in their remote settlements and outstations than in custody. In effect, aborigines were safer in jail that in the remote settlements.
What say you to that?
Mycal:
07 Jun 2013 12:40:22am
What do I say?
Simply this, when the State incarcerates a person they have a duty of care. A differential death rate applying to people of different races suggests:
A) racist policies, and
B) a failure of the duty to care
mike:
06 Jun 2013 3:50:31pm
Tony Abbott spends a week every year living in a remote indigenous community and helping out. Interesting level of personal commitment there.
John Coochey:
06 Jun 2013 4:23:51pm
Actually not only do aborigines have a lower rate of deaths in custody than non aborigines but those who receive custodial sentences have a lower death rate than those who do. So you point is precisely?
Mycal:
07 Jun 2013 12:36:32am
Aborigines have lower death rates in custody!?
Please quote your source because last time I checked the aborigine death rate was far higher than that of non aborigine.
Miles Ontheclock :
07 Jun 2013 3:27:58am
So we have a society where it is preferable for a category of our citizens to be in jail, because it's better for their health and longevity. That is really something to be proud of. Very clever of you to pont that out.
Tristan:
06 Jun 2013 11:53:04pm
Mack,
What do you have to say about the 4 Corners report "Who Killed Mr Ward?" (15 Jun 2009) about an Aboriginal death in custody?
"Four hundred kilometres though the blazing heat of the day. Outside the temperature reached 42 degrees, inside the surface of this metal cell steadily increased to over fifty-six."
"By midafternoon, the Aboriginal man in custody was dead."
"The Coroner found that Nina Stokoe and Graham Powell, the Department of Corrective Services and the company GSL had all breached their duty of care, and each had contributed to Mr Ward's death."
www.abc.net.au/4corners/content/2009/s2598796.htm
FalKirk:
07 Jun 2013 7:19:04am
A glaring omission from your partisan post is the work being done by Twiggy Forrest in for the aboriginal community. Hew has made a huge investment in projects employing local aboriginals.This contribution has been acknowledged right across Australia including the Federal Labor .
But by you.
Selective political amnesia?
Joe:
06 Jun 2013 11:40:10am
After listening to an Aboriginal women on the SBS, who was present at the intervention and who is now an NT member of Parliament, I can now understand that the army was not the right group to "send in".
Having said this Australia often does "send in the army" to help with humanitarian operations. Not only in Australia but also around the region.
RobJ:
06 Jun 2013 12:00:57pm
"Perhaps if you spent some time up North, you'd understand why the intervention was necessary. The rape and indeed sex trade of children,"
Then why haven't we sent the army into the Catholic Church and other institutions?
Also the Suffer the Children report was published in 1997? Why did the government wait so long to act on it? I'll tell you why, political convenience, and 'cynical civility'! You've helped Jonathan make his point.
Big Nana:
06 Jun 2013 3:07:10pm
The army was sent in mainly to help set up infrastructure and support the teams of medical examiners who conducted the mandatory health checks of children. Health checks which are never talked about, by the way. Funny how little talk there is about the number of cases of previously undiagnosed rheumatic heart disease, iron deficiency aneamia, deafness, malnutrition etc were found and treated. No one talks about the survey that shows 70% of women now feel safer in their homes. God forbid we should ever discuss anything positive to come out of the intervention
Righto:
07 Jun 2013 6:38:08am
I'd love to see a reference to this study showing 70% of Aboriginal women across the entire NT feel safer due to the use of the army coming out during the Intervention.
Rae:
07 Jun 2013 9:12:33am
Righto are you aware that the army regularly make drops of essentials to far flung outposts.
They also turn up on beaches with water, blankets and food when city folk go off 'to save the whale' without taking any supplies with them.
The army drops fodder to livestock in floods and supplies stranded households.
They assist in bushfire situations.
I actually think by asserting they should not assist a community in crisis because that community is aboriginal is decidedly racist.
In any troubling situation, in Australia, seeing an army truck arrive makes me feel a whole lot better and I don't think it would be any different for those women trying to defend themselves and their children from a bunch of drunks out out of control.
JaneThomas:
06 Jun 2013 12:01:11pm
Your very good at slogans and placards. You'll have to join the next Alan Jones brigade.
lazarus:
06 Jun 2013 12:05:36pm
What lefty idealism, both sides of federal parliament support the intervention and you have a CLP (right wing) Government in the NT. If something can't be done don't blame lefties, blame your own side, you have control.
MichaelP:
06 Jun 2013 12:10:22pm
The vast majority of boat arrivals are granted genuine refugee status and are not 'economic refugees'. Eg 80-95% of Afghan (the main country of origin) asylum seekers by boat since 2009 have been granted protection Visas.
'Economic refugees' generally get here by plane but oddly no one seems too bothered about that...
As for the intervention: this far from convincing response (send in the army???) to some very serious issues has, as I understand it, been continued by the current Labor government.
David Hand:
06 Jun 2013 2:31:17pm
It's the fact that most economic migrants arrive by plane from a lot of varied cultural and ethnic sources with no fuss. This explodes Green's left wing diatribe against most Australians. Unidentified boat people with no documentation arriving by leaky boat are quite another thing.
It is widely believed by middle Australia that 'being found' by a bureaucrat to be a refugee does not make it true. Indeed, almost every investigation by journalists into specific cases shows a case of the system being rorted. Captain Emad, the Bahktiaries, Latif.
Voters are driven away from the urban intellectual left not by succumbing to dog whistle appeals to prejudice but by this sanctimonious, holier than thou, contempt for them that flows unceasingly from the ABC.
mike:
06 Jun 2013 3:52:41pm
They are given the benefit of the doubt since they have destroyed their identity papers. Indeed, that's why they come by boat, after flying to Indonesia. If they were truly legitimate refugees they would fly here by plane with their identity papers intact.
Pop:
06 Jun 2013 12:16:26pm
Thank you Tom, I wonder whether the author has worked with some of our authorities who are trying to keep this place safe, the western suburbs of Sydney, the northern suburbs of Melbourne. We walk around oblivious to the under current of trouble brewing in these communities. What happened in London is on our door step, we don't even realise it.
Forerunner:
06 Jun 2013 3:05:47pm
Hi Pop - since the "centre" of Sydney's population is Parramatta, I think you'll find that the "trouble brewing" is in Eastern Sydney - eg Bankstown, etc.
Pablo:
06 Jun 2013 12:20:06pm
Perhaps if you spent some time out in Western Sydney, you'd understand why an intervention is necessary. The rape and indeed sex trade of children, domestic violence and substance abuse are intractably present and it's an utter disgrace that conservative idealism prevents the action needed.
Rich J:
06 Jun 2013 12:27:46pm
Tombowler, really. How dare you use facts and personal experience to contradict the lefty city bound knowit alls? I'll bet they spat their lattes all over their iPad screens when they read your comment. Hopefully the waiter brings them enough serviettes to mop it up, so they don't stain the seats in their ML Mercedes when they leave brunch at 11am.
Tiresias:
06 Jun 2013 2:32:55pm
Mmmm. Hate, fear and prejudice exhibited right here.
dmills:
06 Jun 2013 12:39:41pm
I'd expect that not all of them would be refugees. That's not the issue. The issue is that all refugees are being treated as if they were scammers/crims. Convicted criminals in our jails are probably way better off than the refugees in detention in places like Manus Island.
As for the Intervention, I don't think anyone disputes that something drastic needed to be done. Rather, the issue is the existence of laws and attitudes/assumptions which determined that the way it was done was inherently racist and that may have inadvertently exacerbated some of the very problems it was intended to solve (as so many other efforts in the past have).
juliet jones:
06 Jun 2013 12:51:13pm
Yeah, because all the Lefties just love child trafficking and rape and domestic violence. Love it! Everyone on here is a lawyer or owns a business it seems. Don't know how you find the time to always be on here. But most refugees are not economic and if you knew anything about it, which you clearly don't, you would understand this. Go do some research. I think your comment has a real agenda. Maybe the Right will applaud. I doubt that any one decent will.
Barj:
06 Jun 2013 1:01:56pm
Oh Tombowler, we do not have to go up North to see the atrocities you listed. Rape and sex trade of children is currently being exposed in the Catholic church and its institutions and I very much doubt the other churches and religious institutions are any better. Domestic violence is hardly confined to the North and hardly confined to any one section of the community and neither is substance abuse.
mike:
06 Jun 2013 3:55:52pm
No one said it was confined to remote communities, but it has long been recognised as most rampant and problematic there. Of course you must know that.
Matt McCormack:
06 Jun 2013 9:48:49pm
You very much doubt.......well that shows that you dont know, havnt bothered to enquire and would be well surprised that the failings of the catholic church are confined to, well, the catholic church actually.
Matt McCormack:
06 Jun 2013 10:56:33pm
You very much doubt.......well that shows that you dont know, havnt bothered to enquire and would be well surprised that the failings of the catholic church are confined to, well, the catholic church actually.
mick:
06 Jun 2013 1:29:36pm
these people deliberately have no documents and bring jihad hatreds to this country do need to be very carefully managed. No doubt some are genuine but most arrive via multiple countries before arriving here meaning - destination oz for free everything and desire to change our land/culture. We should be concerned, as these especially young men are running away from their country without any loyalty to their homelands and likley the cowards rather than the ones who will stand up to the internal domestic/religious squabbles. Our security forces should train/equip these young men and send them back to defend their democratic ideals and pursuit of freedom. No different to the japs when they attacked our country - we didn't get on leaky boats , pay 20K to businessmen and go running to NZ. We stood and had a go.
Big Ben:
06 Jun 2013 1:31:40pm
Tombowler
I have also worked in the field of plaintiff law representing refugees. Unlike you I never found plaintiff law horrible, challenging on occasion, but never horrible.
I only represented tortured victims of repressive regimes for the most part, and for the balance I met desperate people trying to make a better life for their families, and prepared to take unbelievable risks to make it happen.
The joy and the luck of birth eh?
Tombowler:
06 Jun 2013 1:55:46pm
Don't pretend it's a more noble pursuit than it is Ben.
It's all self-interest. Very profitable self-interest for high-volume, low-complexity procedural plaintiff work.
I agree that the refugee clients were good blokes that were entitled to claim for the harm suffered in detention, I disagree that they were refugees in any real sense of the word.
RobW:
06 Jun 2013 1:38:17pm
If you look at the family violence statistics violence and sexual abuse is common throughout the entire society. Some communities may have much higher rates, but I suspect it's also the case that some communities are much better at hiding it than others.
bobtonnor:
06 Jun 2013 4:15:42pm
'The rape and indeed sex trade of children, domestic violence and substance abuse are intractably present and it's an utter disgrace', this sort of behaviour goes on just about everywhere, its not limited to any race or group of people but there seems to be only one group targeted, its racist pure and simple.
Chrism:
06 Jun 2013 11:34:02am
Idiotic, just idiotic.
It is the basest form of argument to assume that everyone who disagrees with you is a nasty racist stupid brute. That's what this ugly rant from Jonathan Green amounts to.
Want to stop the boats? you must be a racist white Aussie. It doesn't matter to Green that the demographic that most strongly opposes boat people are recent immigrant communities who feel peeved that others are getting around the system that they had to go through. They see boat people as a threat to a migration system that helped them and that they hope will help other members of their family and their old community to come to Australia.
For the intervention? Must be an ugly stupid racist. No matter that the intervention was an attempt to alleviate gross suffering, sexual abuse and inequality. No if you support it you are an unthinking racist moron.
Jonathan Green is just angry that Australians are going to vote out Labor. They must be nasty stupid racist sexist brutes.
Tiresias:
06 Jun 2013 2:46:23pm
Written on signs declaring Intervention rules along the Stuart Highway is the word 'Racism'.
As for people being annoyed that other people are getting special favours, we get constant complaints from some sections of the community telling how hard they work and how successful they are and how they pay their taxes, yet some less privileged people are given money which is then spent on cigarettes, alcohol and plasma screens.
bobtonnor:
06 Jun 2013 4:18:52pm
'gross suffering, sexual abuse and inequality', it goes on everywhere but the intervention was targeted towards the indigenous population, why else would the racil discrimation act be suspended while this happened? any ideas?
That Guy:
06 Jun 2013 8:19:47pm
Because it was designed to alleviate serious issues specifically occurring in sections of Indigenous Australia. Therefore needed to be targeted. Which may have been difficult because various interests - some with their hearts in the right places and others not - would have used that Act to ensure nothing was done.
I hate the thought that the Act was suspended. But have seen the benefits of the Intervention personally over the years since it was brought in. And lets face it, by and large almost all the restrictions etc of the intervention are now across the board in the NT anyway. Income Management is spreading. And as for the pornography... well.... if you think Indigenous people don't know how to use phones or the internet then you are seriously mistaken. And the alcohol restrictions were oft-times already in place anyway at the behest of the communities.
Chrism:
06 Jun 2013 11:06:08pm
Of course the intervention was targetted. All good programs are targetted. The intervention was targetted at aboriginal communities because they had specific unique characteristics that called for this sort of approach. Some of these have to do with the remoteness of the communities and also their management structure.
The racial discrimination act had to be suspended because otherwise self appointed "do gooders" would have tied the program up endlessly in court. They wouldn't have cared less how many children were raped or women bashed to death because of their meddling. As long as they could parade their "moral superiority" and chant their slogans about discrimination in front of the world's media they couldn't have cared less.
The intervention was aimed at helping aboriginal, not disadvantaging them. To describe it and, worse, the motivations behind it as racist is to loose sight what real racism is.
You can argue about how effective the program is and how it could have been done better, but to simply dismiss it as mindless racism as Green does is simply tiresome and offensive.
Mycal:
06 Jun 2013 5:02:37pm
Utter rubbish Chrism, we'd all like to stop the boats but given that is unlikely to happen, some of us would also like to treat people decently when they do manage to arrive here after travelling several thousand miles across an ocean in a leaky boat.
As for the intervention, sure something had to be done, but sending in the Army, suspending civil law and the race relations act and then continuing it for years is NOT what should or could have been done. The fact that we chose that form of intervention is what Jonathan's article is all about.
To suggest that niether of these issues have a racist component is to demostrate a complete ignorance of the society in which you live.
As for voting out Labor, I look forward to the aftermath!
Chrism:
06 Jun 2013 11:21:02pm
You can find "a racist component" in anything if you look hard enough, mycal, just like you can find a "sexist component" in anything.
The Drum specialises in articles by people whose noses are so sensitive they can sniff out dark motivations on the far side of the moon.
The rest of us live in the real world where the intervention is about helping people and being able to manage your own immigration policy is seen as good thing. For most people doing good is more important than being ideologically pure.
Albo:
06 Jun 2013 5:37:29pm
I particularly like the outstanding hypocrisy of Green and his leftie contingent !
"And all of this dark heat around an issue that is essentially a fabrication created for purely political purpose."
Unlike the accusations of misogyny, more Workchoices, and religious fanaticism of the Opposition Leader !
"What else other than a subtle racist underlay could have enabled the quickly imposed apartheid of the NT intervention.."
Possibly the ongoing raping and murdering of their children by their own drunken family members, could have possibly had something to do with it ?
"If there wasn't a vote in hate, fear and prejudice then there would be no gain in pandering to any of them. '
If there wasn't a vote in accusations of homophobia, gender bias, climate denialism, private school funding proponent, environmental vandalism and whale killing, then there would likewise be no pandering to any of them in the coffee shops !
Sceptical Sam:
07 Jun 2013 12:12:35am
Albo, you've nailed it yet again.
How sad is it that those you seek to enlighten are so permanently blinded by their ideology?
Billy Bob Hall:
06 Jun 2013 11:47:37am
Another astute political commentator has put Labors ills squarely on the Prime Minister - nothing to to with racism.
The ALP mistakes thus identified are :
1. Believing its own versions of fancy.
(Ie falling for the global warming nonsense).
2. Believing Gillard knows what she is doing or what she stands for.
3. Believing the sycophantic Canberra press gallery.
4. Believing it's own spin.
5. Being suckers for union thugs.
Only 100 days to go. Thank goodness.
WoodGnome:
06 Jun 2013 1:53:19pm
(Ie falling for the global warming nonsense).
Do you have any data to back up your assertion of "global warming nonsense" or you just another idiot without any idea or knowledge repeating the fallacies of the "its not warming" bullshit?
Go look at the BOM site, go look at NASA, go look at NOAA, go look at the European Science Foundation. All these are Science backed sites which show the nature of the changes we are making to the energetics of the atmosphere.
now where is the data to support your assertion of "global warming nonsense"?
The lack of Scientific understanding at any level of the supposed incoming political party is frightening, the inability to accept supported science and then plan policy to actually support the wrongs that will exacerbate the problems is also frightening.
What future will be left by the politically corrupt and the stupid?
mick:
06 Jun 2013 7:06:42pm
the future will hold great things without this mad green pyschoscience like more jobs, more industry, cheaper power, pensioners not frightened to turn on the heater and we can resume normal business operations. We dont need to participate in this green dream as indicated at copenhagen - no-ones buying this garbage anywhere except the gaveytrain grant and taxtakers.
Mycal:
07 Jun 2013 12:30:32am
Your sense of certainty is only exceeded by your complete ignorance mick.
I am not sure of anything much at all, but I will take the evidence of the scientists and I pray to the diety I don't believe in that whatever government we get come September it will base it policies on science and reason. I suspect that like all prayers they will go unanswered.
BTW science is not a matter of belief, be it climate science or any other kind.
Sceptical Sam:
07 Jun 2013 12:32:29am
I didn't read Billy Bob Hall as saying it's not warming (notwithstanding it hasn't done so for 17 years (23 by some observations)).
Comprehension seems to be something that the CAGW proponents have not yet fully developed.
Of course it's warmed. The IPPC's figure of 0.76 C degrees over 100 years to 2005 is about right. But will it accelerate as the CAGW proponents assert? Their models are already showing they're wrong. Will it become "runaway" global warming as their models predict? Already the likes of David Karoly are winding back their catastrophic predictions because they know that they've over-egged the pudding.
Bill Bob Hall said it's nonsense. That means, to my mind, that Billy Bob Hall does not accept the proposition that man made CO2 has led to unprecedented Global Warming that will have catastrophic outcomes for the world's environment and for mankind.
The evidence - as opposed to the models - says Billy Bob Hall is correct. Even some of the CAGW proponents are starting to look for escape hatches from their previous over-the-top assertions.
In case you don't know WoodGnome, gnomes don't exist. Neither does the tooth fairy nor the pixie at the bottom of your garden. A bit like CAGW really.
John:
07 Jun 2013 8:07:45am
Quite correct, Sceptical Sam, the AGW catastrophe merchants are now running for cover.
Perhaps you haven't read the recent research that argues that CO2 has never had any influence on global warming but that excessive use of CFCs caused the damage, and it will eventually wane. The research is creating quite some interest in scientific circles. It shows, for example, that the slowing down and reversal of the warming over the last 15-20 years is precisely as shown by the calculated influence of the CFCs and is despite increasing use of fossil fuel and consequent CO2 emission.
Reinhard:
07 Jun 2013 9:03:45am
Sam it has warmed and you know it, due to an unusually hot year in 1998 and the subsequent LaNana it's simply stopped breaking records for a while.
"NASA Finds 2011 Ninth-Warmest Year on Record 01.19.12
The global average surface temperature in 2011 was the ninth warmest since 1880, according to NASA scientists. The finding continues a trend in which nine of the 10 warmest years in the modern meteorological record have occurred since the year 2000. The first 11 years of the 21st century experienced notably higher temperatures compared to the middle and late 20th century, Hansen said. The only year from the 20th century in the top 10 warmest years on record is 1998."
http://www.nasa.gov/topics/earth/features/2011-temps.html
Joe:
06 Jun 2013 2:49:30pm
Billy,
Only 100 days to go until something you obviously haven't thought much about.
Because if you had thought about it, it would scare the hell out of you.
An Abbott led government.
Trek:
06 Jun 2013 6:47:40pm
"... An Abbott lead government..." would be answer to all our prayers. It took this mob only six years to turn such wonderful, prosperous country with no debt and budget surpluses to 300 billion dollars debt, one illegal boat a year to 3,000 arrivals PER MONTH!!!
We must get rid of this incompetent, awful 'excuse of government' ASAP.
anne perth:
07 Jun 2013 12:52:29am
Trek: You don't understand the 'debt' situation at all, do you? You should study up a bit before shooting your mouth off and looking foolish. It is a LOT more complicated......
Do you recall the 700 escapes from detention under Howard. Look it up. They had no Afghan war refugees or human rights abuses in Sri Lanka. Do some research before you comment.
That gov only had surpluses because they ripped every cent off the most vulnerable and benefited from the first mining boom. They did nothing with it - no fixing transport, education, Murray Darling, mental or disability health.... NOTHING. They did nothing but set us backward 50 years - back to greed and racism. And that's what you will get again. So you will feel at home. Congratulations.
Tiresias:
06 Jun 2013 3:04:27pm
1. Abbott believes in global warming and claims he will reduce carbon emissions by 5% by 2020. He does not explain how his Direct Action plan would reduce carbon emissions by 50% by mid-century (British Tory policy).
2. Look at Labor policies. If you cannot tell what she stands for you have not been trying.
3. The sycophantic press gallery is the one which will not challenge Abbott for his daft claims and gaffes. Yet we also have people who believe the spin of the Murdoch Press.
4. People believe the Coal-ition's spin about 'economic emergency'. And all the other spin.
5. And the Coal-ition takes its orders from whom? Wealthy industrial bosses? Right-wing think tanks? Special interest lobbyists? Powerful media barons?
Looking forward to Sept 14? Be careful what you hope for!
Alan - Gold Coast:
06 Jun 2013 5:15:22pm
Billy Bob,
you blow yourself out of the water on Point 1. Your example being totally incorrect.
Whilst your remaining arguments/points are arguable, the first point is subject only to myths created by those with a vested interest into fooling you about the extent of global warming. Obviously it has worked.
You should read more widely: For instance http://www.skepticalscience.com/
will introduce you to something called scientific evidence.
Why bother? My 18 month old grandson come from a lineage with long lives. He will be in his 80's in 2100. He will inherit what we give him and his generation.
So it really does matter what we do right now. It is not so remote a time, so it is important one looks at the evdiednce, not the "opinions" (not scientific evdience) of Monktons and the like with vested financial interests in muddying the waters.
I can look my grandson in the eyes, will you be able to?
anne perth:
07 Jun 2013 12:55:41am
Alan - you need to get up to date with your study. Global warming is - far from being exaggerated - much worse than any body could have predicted. You may be dead and buried before the worst of it hits but your silly ignorance will live on here - for as long as the planet operates.......
anne perth:
07 Jun 2013 12:57:53am
Alan?! 'skeptical science'???? Are you serious????? That's a well-known bundle of putrefaction. I suppose nobody landed on the moon, either?
Tristan:
06 Jun 2013 6:08:17pm
Many suckers are going to vote for the Coalition.
They're the same suckers who gave us the GST and Workchoices.
And now it's a repeat of previous Liberal campaigns, where they campaigned on boat people.
The same suckers are going to give us reduced penalty rates and the removal of unfair dismissal protection, a broadening of the base and/or increase in the rate of GST, mass privatisation, public asset sales, lax regulation of the 457 system, harsh IR reforms, lax environmental standards, acceleration of outsourcing services and offshoring of skilled jobs, more vocationally irrelevant work for the dole programs for those aged 50 y.o. and under, remaining public service jobs including the CSIRO and Defence relocated to northern Australia, an inferior fraudband network, a useless direct action mass tree planting policy, and a hike in the price of goods and services as businesses pass on the cost of the 1.5% parental leave levy.
Tony Abbott will fail to reduce the cost of electricity by 10% or more, and he will fail to stop the boats.
Pop:
06 Jun 2013 11:15:08pm
Tristan,
Don't you go worrying about the reduced penalty rates and unfair dismissal, from where I sit you sound unemployable anyway.
What good did you do for the person who employs you today? hand in your notice?? LOL
Harquebus:
06 Jun 2013 3:33:13pm
That's what holds up his halo?
Bob Bobbings:
06 Jun 2013 8:22:36am
Don't forget that for all the multiculti talk, Australia is still by far the whitest of immigrant nations (that's why it's the destination of choice for white South Africans). It's whiter than most European nations. For the most part Australians want to keep it that way because they're a pretty nasty, ill-educated, small-minded, casually-racist bunch (when the cameras aren't on them).
In one way the Bolts etc are right about Australia. The progressive Whitlam/Keating revolutions really were top-down attempts to make Australia better than the population was capable of sustaining or appreciating. The current rise of the Coalition, most spectacularly with a very right-wing military engineer in control of Queensland, is a return to Australian natural type.
Thus far nonwhites have fared reasonably well in contemporary times despite all this. But should Australians face a real challenge, like a severe economic recession, we can expect scapegoating to extend well beyond the current program of systematic psychological torture of asylum seekers.
Ozilla:
06 Jun 2013 10:07:17am
So if it's the "white-bread" Australians who are racist, why is it Western Sydney, with a predominantly immigrant population, that is the flashpoint for the anti-"boat people" vote? Why are traditionally working class people moving to the right?
Isn't it interesting that many recent arrivals in Australia are pro-immigration but anti-"boat people" and are leaning toward Abbott's right wing vision for Australia? So many contradictions.
It appears to me that the increase in immigration that Howard initiated has self-selected for people of a libertarian right wing political persuasion. We're now well down the path of the American experiment and steadily progressing toward our "manifest destiny". The old egalitarian model of Australian society is being replaced by the individualistic, self-interested American model.
The rapid population growth of the last 10-20 years has changed our political landscape in unexpected ways.
Gr8Ape:
06 Jun 2013 1:26:26pm
It's strange that the people who feel that their job security and living standards are under threat from asylum seekers would turn to those who would advocate the very same things in the name of productivity.
Tom1:
06 Jun 2013 1:37:56pm
Ozilla: Why do you think the LNP do not want "Gonski"? With more money spent where it is needed, a better education will the enable the populace to reason for themselves. Now of course the people who thing that boat arrivals will have a more detrimental affect on their well being than an unsatisfactory education for their children are apparently set on replacing the Government for someone who has fed the falsity in the first place.
antipostmodernism:
06 Jun 2013 10:10:17am
You have deliberately made vile derogatory comments against one group of people based on race. This is against the law unless the victims are white. Bolt got done for far less than what you have just said. If I make even the slightest negative reference to the nature of certain racial groups or religions, I am not published.
danny:
06 Jun 2013 4:49:12pm
You see it's actually a relative thing connected to power.
The race that dominates the political sphere, the race with POWER is the only one that really CAN be rascist. Where his remarks made in, say, Saudi Arabia by a Muslim, then the exact same set of words would indeed be rascist.
It's an important point often left out off when discussing racism, it can seem wrong, but that's just how it is.
Aussie Sutra:
06 Jun 2013 10:27:25am
I keep forgetting...if you're WHITE, you have NO natural right to an identity or a culture or a homeland of your own, and if you are failing to be out actively trying to stamp out the remnants of any natural identity or culture you ever had, then you MUST BE A RACIST. Of course, if you are NOT WHITE, then you are entitled to all of those things as well as the joy of spending your time stomping on any remnants of European culture and its derivatives, and you will be applauded as being "progressive" for doing so.
Barney in Saigon:
06 Jun 2013 1:36:13pm
Poor A.S.,
It constantly amazes me how us "white" Australians are able to cope with the persecution and lack of freedoms in Australia.
Maybe when a refugee boat arrives, we could allow disaffected "white" Australians to use these boats to escape their persecution and disadvantage.
big joe:
07 Jun 2013 6:30:11am
We could also do what the clear majority of Australians want and turn the boats around. The vocal minority can always be relied upon to jump up and down and accuse anyone who dares have an opinion contrary to theirs of being racist rednecks but conveniently forget that it will be the majority who determine our policy on queue jumpers, not them.
Leonie:
06 Jun 2013 10:59:53am
What a rude, nasty piece of rascist propaganda!
big joe:
07 Jun 2013 6:36:32am
Why Leonie? what he said is quite true, racist has become a term used to describe anyone who doesn't agree with the opinions of the vocal left. The silent majority will have their say in September.
Cripes:
06 Jun 2013 11:03:26am
Some of us people who you think are "pretty nasty, ill-educated, small-minded, casually-racist bunch" actually believe that people from India and Asia are among the best- mannered, hardest working, family-orientated people in the land. Bring more of them. But, stop the asylum boats, because a good immigration policy can't amount to just a mad scramble to see who can get here first.
Marvin:
06 Jun 2013 11:33:24am
Ausralians are not racist! If u scratch the surface of all groups their are the in group and the outsiders. Lazy thinking contributes to this misconception. Grouping people together based on some perceived differences is so lame that to label one group as racist without looking at the dynamics is absurd. If you just walk around blacktown at lunch hour u see such a diversity of people it is really cool.
Blaming poverty and unemployeement on racist misconceptions does not solve any problems, better education, training and employment opportunities is the answer to these ranters as it solves the problem of inequities, and disadvantage.
SA:
06 Jun 2013 11:42:12am
you're perceptions are framed around what you want to believe ... mate
Bren:
06 Jun 2013 12:22:03pm
Most south Africians I know have coem to Australia because for the past 10 years there were jobs here they could get a work visa for. The USA and Canada much harder to get right to work visa's.
also Australia does not have a gun culture and many south Africians appreciate that.
When and where has Campbell Newman ever said any such thing? I remember the ALP made 3 false corruption claims in the lead up to the last state election about Newmand and his family and failed demonatrate anything except false allegations. Bob do you need to confess something here?
You would need to show me where Whitlam and Keating did anything more than or different from Fraser, Hawke, Howard or Rudd and Gillard even. There are no heros in this discussion.
When we next face a severe economic challenge, like perhaps the 1970's, early 1990's or even 1997 I doubt we will rounding up legal citizens for systemic torture, psychological or other regardless of their skin colour or religion. However the economic refugees who are able to afford people smugglers to queue jump might stop coming and search out the next hot spot of economic growth.
notinventedhere:
06 Jun 2013 1:02:26pm
I agree that Newman is a prize right wing manipulator blessed with a one party legislature (I do not thin you can call it a parliament), but can you please rethink using 'engineer' as part of your insult. and built the country we live in.
Engineers are truly the salt of the Earth.
andie:
06 Jun 2013 1:20:06pm
The White Australia policy was introduced by the ALP.
It was ended by the Liberal Party.
It was the Liberal Party that held the referendum that gave our indigenous people recognition and the vote.
It was the Liberal Fraser government that managed the successful migration of the Vietnamese after the end of the war.
It was the ALP Keating government that built the detention centers in place such as Woomera
It is the current ALP PMs office who stirred up a race riot against Abbott.
It is the ALP Gillard government railing against the 457 visas on 'racist - Australians first' grounds
Tristan:
06 Jun 2013 2:50:51pm
"It is the ALP Gillard government railing against the 457 visas on 'racist - Australians first' grounds."
No Andie,
The ALP are tightening 457 visa regulations to prevent employers exploiting loopholes in the system.
Read today's Age for a special investigation in employer rorting of the 457 system.
As for putting Australians first....
Warren Truss on ABC Insiders (2 Jun 2013) and Liberal backbencher Don Randall repeated the line about placing Australians first. Are they whipping up race hatred as well?
"WARREN TRUSS: Well, we'll certainly look at this proposed legislation when it comes in. But yes, they should make a reasonable effort to obtain an Australian for the job first.
There are plenty of barriers to bringing a 457 visa participant in; it's very costly, there are all sorts of rules which apply to it. So any employer would naturally prefer to have an Australian if they can get them. So they should seek out the Australian market to get an employee if they can.
But if they can't then it ought to be as easy as possible to bring in a 457 visa from outside the country. But we all agree Australians first, if Australians are available."
www.abc.net.au/insiders/content/2012/s3772641.htm
And when Peter Costello chose an offshore bank linked to Enron to manage Australia's Future Fund, Liberal backbencher Don Randall said :
'I get annoyed for example when I ring up a bank with my Diners Club card and get an Indian voice somewhere in Bangalore ? that annoys me as much as I'm sure this is going to annoy others,' he said. 'I think Australian jobs for Australians in Australia.' "
And let's remember the calibre and tolerance of previous Liberal candidates - Pauline Hanson, David Barker (chosen for the western Sydney seat of Chifley).
Re David Barker :
"The disgraced candidate used his Facebook site to accuse Labor of moving the nation closer to a Muslim country and attacked his ALP opponent in Chifley, Ed Husic, over his religion."
Reinhard:
06 Jun 2013 5:15:22pm
Andie just once I would like to see you contribute something factual, it would make a nice change..
"White Australia Policy" started life as the Immigration Restriction Act of 1901 introduced by our first PM Edmund Barton of the Protectionist Party.
It ended in 1975 when the Whitlam LABOR Government passed the Racial Discrimination Act, which made racially-based selection criteria illegal.
Tristan:
06 Jun 2013 5:55:38pm
"It is the ALP Gillard government railing against the 457 visas on 'racist - Australians first' grounds."
"The potential for abuse of subclass 457 visas was noted by a US State Department report in 2007 which suggested that conditions for some foreign workers in Australia on the 457 visa ?amounted to slavery, debt bondage and involuntary servitude?.
"This was dismissed by the then Minister for Citizenship and Immigration (Kevn Andrews) as 'ill-informed in respect to the purpose of the 457 visa and the obligations placed on employers who use the scheme'."
"Despite this denial, many more abuses were uncovered by the Deegan Review, which led to the Labor government passing a series of legislative reforms to improve the integrity of Australia?s foreign worker program.""
"The Liberal Party?s Vision for 2030: Can it Be Achieved without Northern Australia becoming a Guest-Worker Ghetto?" (Adelaide University)
vadi:
06 Jun 2013 6:05:38pm
Andie, you are wrong. The "White Australia" policy was a bipartisan policy based on an amalgam of fear and prejuidce and Social Darwinism. It was partially dismantled under Holt and Gorton and fully scrapped under Whitlam and Fraser. The "Aboriginal" referendum of 1967 had bi-partisan support. On the other hand it was Howard who in the mid 1980s suggested that we cease Asian immigration and Kevin Andrew who stated that Africans had no place in Australia.This is a complex issue, far more complex than this shrill, superficial article would allow, and the debate so far has been divided between (a) those who state that all who arrive by boat are asylum seekers and are as pure as the driven snow, and (b) those who claim that all who arrive are economic opportunists who should be deterred at all costs. It is an issue worthy of far more informed debate. And you wish to make it into a party issue look no further than Tampa...
Jim Moore:
06 Jun 2013 8:24:15am
Would you stop with the "our" and the "we" already, as if Australia (or any society) is homogenous. I'm sure your teachers in high school thought it was admirable to live and write in this self-flagellating style but I grew up without being made to feel guilty as second nature. I find it offensive that you imply that I am a racist simply because there are racists in Australia. By that rule everybody in the world is racist.
dubious the third:
06 Jun 2013 9:36:42am
Jm
you live in a country that was built on the notion of racial supremism. Since 1788 it has been so.
Then came the White Australia Policy.
Rather than deny these aspects of our cultural norms, and deny any personal racism, it would seem more rehabiltative to admit such inculcated racism affects us all, and to work to overcome our racism.
Tombowler:
06 Jun 2013 10:00:26am
What self-righteous, pathetic martyrdom.
You keep your guilt, my friend. I wasn't here in 1788, I wasn't alive for the White Australia Policy and I treat all comers the same, irrespective of race.
I don't need your 'rehabilitation' nor do I suffer from 'inculcated racism' and very rarely have I felt it's effects.
You write with all the intellectual rigour of a primary school student trying to impress his multicultural studies teacher.
Hank Moody:
06 Jun 2013 12:53:47pm
You write as if you're the authority on racism in this country, yet you state that "very rarely have I felt it's (sic) effects"
If you have such little experience of it what gives you the nerve to comment on it as if you're some authority? Not to mention hurling insults like some spoilt child...
Pauly:
06 Jun 2013 1:18:50pm
It's interesting that you state "I don't need your 'rehabilitation' nor do I suffer from 'inculcated racism' and very rarely have I felt it's effects. " 20 mins after to make a blanket statement that asylum seekers are economic refugees.
Of course in your case your experiences have indeed provided you with the insight into the motives and background of all asylum seekers, and you aren't a generalising racist.
dubious the third:
06 Jun 2013 1:20:38pm
To imagine that there is no residual racism within the Australian culture seems to be in denial of all historical evidence, and current day "slips of the tongue" .
Tombowler, your knee jerk attack the messenger response appears far more self righteous than anything I wrote.
However I challenge you to admit that your wages are subsidised by the stolenwealth of these lands, stolen on an assumption of racial supremism, to which you directly benefit.
It seems apparent that for many ozzies, these issues need to broken down to a primary school level, so please forgive me for arguing over your head.
Zing:
06 Jun 2013 3:51:17pm
The term "stolen" is a loaded term, Dubious.
It implies that we didn't have the right to take the land from the original owners. It also implies that having done so, we could be indicted by some higher authority. Both are incorrect.
Aside from that, it is impossible for a sovereign to steal something. If the sovereign desires something and is capable of enforcing power over that thing, it is theirs to take.
dubious the third:
06 Jun 2013 7:53:06pm
Interesting indeed Zing, is that 20 years ago, the highest imposed Court here determined that the settler state was settled incorrectly at British Law.
That's the law, yet you write that "stolen" is an emotive term.
Is it not true that no Prior and Informed Consent was ever given, if indeed even asked for, yet this was on Instructions to Cook, Stirling, the SA Letters Patents, and all Treaty Arrangements britain was involved with as of 1788, yet these lands were settled as if a terra nullius, when in reality, there were existing rightful residentse here minding their own businesses, and posing no threat to England, Wales, Scotland, or even Ireland?
I fail to see how "stolen" is emotive.
Guber:
06 Jun 2013 4:38:22pm
dubious,
Don't know about Tombowler, but i'm pretty sure my wages aren't subsidised by the 'stolenwealth'.
In fact, if I understand it correctly, my wages actually subsidise sorry-assed victims such as yourself.
Might want to show a little more gratitude, old chap.
dubious the third:
06 Jun 2013 8:15:52pm
perhaps you need to look a bit harder Guber
Do you think that the mining and agriculture industries contibute to the economy, into which you gain a wage?
Is it possible that without the exploitation of those resources, the selling of your labour would be into a labour market or a business market that would be of lesser value than is available now?
From Australia's billionaires, over paid politicians, overpaid CEOs, overpaid workers, over paid welfare recipients, well, actually, that last one's a bit hard to argue given those preceding them on the scale of subsidy, but don't most people profit from the exploitation of the lands now known as Australia?
So, on a daily basis, we benefit from the dispossession of the rightful residents, and to legitimise our good fortune, the settler culture tends to denigrate, brutalise, to blame "them" for their despair, or say they're not real ones if they appear to be of mixed descent, and is that not all racist?
Meanwhile, we live off them with subsidised wages, conveniently denying any connection.
Trek:
06 Jun 2013 1:24:09pm
Tombowler, thank you for your comments. I am also sick and tired of some pesnut brains taking it to themselves to accept the guilt for anything and apologise on my behalh. I am a proud humanitarins who has always helped and assisted anyone anywhere I could. I have never done harm to anyone. Therefore, I am sick of these imbeciles insisting to to impose some guilt on me. NO!!!! Not guilty -your honour. If you want to continue to invent the type of guilts take them upon yourself. I believe in individual responsibility. I am responsible and proud of what I do. Collective or histrical guilt is an attept to perpetuate oppression of some people so that some other group of people can feel victimised thus ejoying extra sympathy and privileges. This heplps neither the oppressed group not the 'victims' . For as long as the 'victims' don't break the 'victim mentality', they will never attempt to get up and determine their own future. Jim, you are a disgrace to human race, not just to any particular group or race.
Mark James:
06 Jun 2013 1:32:56pm
Tombowler, just out of interest, were you alive during the Galipoli landings?
Because, on ANZAC day, as well as remembering those who laid down their lives for the nation, hundreds and thousands of Australians also take a kind of vicarious pride in what was done in their name before they were born.
If we're being honest with ourselves, shouldn't we, if we want to own our past glories, also also own our past disrepute?
Sarah:
06 Jun 2013 3:08:42pm
"I don't need your rehabilitation" That is what every every hater says-it a bit like " I was not there" or "I was only following orders" or "That s business'. Its how we rationalise every national or personal prejudice.
Aussie Sutra:
06 Jun 2013 10:29:11am
Australia now has the NON white Australia policy. Don't believe me? Try arriving on a boat from Indonesia and being white and see if you get instantly sent to live in Australia, with a free pass to permanent Centrelink, within the week.
dubious the third:
06 Jun 2013 1:25:12pm
Thank you for this information AS.
So stealing the wealth of these lands on a pretext of racial supremism is okey dokey because non white people are now allowed to live here too, so long as they can enrich us with their skills and/or wealth. Is that it?
That Guy:
06 Jun 2013 8:34:00pm
Sorry Dubious but you have posted the waffle about 'stealing the wealth of these lands on the pretext of racial supremism' once too often and have to be called on it.
Racial supremism (sic) as you call it would have to be about the least likely reason the Brits invaded. Seriously, do you for a deluded moment think that they took this place because 'we are white and they are black'? No, they took it not due to racial supremism but due to supremism in darn near every other sphere. Not least technologically (spears are little use against rifles usually). They saw land they wanted/had a use for and they took it. Just like the more successful Indigenous tribes lived in the most fertile areas while lesser groups were forced into less desirable areas of the nation. Zip to do with racism and all to do with the ability to carry out the invasion.
Heavens to Betsy man, you do realise that these welfare service towns the remote Indigenous live in are also supported by the wealth of the land, a wealth statistically few of them take any part in creating. What guts me is the hard working Indigenous people out there who feel they have to work harder than their 'white' workmates just to prove to them that they aren't cut from the same cloth. I know, I've met such people and seen the pain in their faces. I've spoken to people with some Indigenous heritage who won't admit to it on various paperwork out of shame. And that is just so wrong. Perpetuating the endless guilt trip gravy train, the endless nanny state handouts many of these towns subsist on, has got to be one of the nastiest and vile ways of destroying a people. All so some people can feel better about themselves. It's sickening.
Please go come and work in remote Australia for a while. Not just a week where you swan about with warmth and love for your fellow man, but actually work out here for a while. I'm sure your heart is in the right place, you have so much passion. But please come and work out here.
John:
07 Jun 2013 8:25:20am
Well, that's not really the case, That Guy.
The British did not want Australia, they did not see it as of value and they gave no thought to occupying it by superior technology or otherwise.
It was the practice in Britain to ship boatloads of criminals out of the British jails to the colonies in America. When America became independent and put a stop to that process, Australia became the destination for the unwanted jail inmates.
As far as the British Government was concerned, if the new settlement could feed and sustain itself and never become a problem, then it would be very happily ignored for ever.
Australia (or the colony of New South Wales, as it was known) was simply an "out of sight, out of mind" dumping ground. The only political or colonising aspect was that Captain Cook was ordered to claim the land in the name of King George as soon as he set foot ashore, simply to prevent the French claiming it and he only beat them to it by a matter of hours.
That Guy:
07 Jun 2013 8:44:37am
Well we agree agree then John, in as much as it had nothing to do with racism...
dubious the third:
07 Jun 2013 8:30:51am
Thanks for the invite, but as I understand these things, most First Nations Peoples do not live in remote NT, and even for those that do, I have no interest of deriving a wage from being their overseer.
That Guy:
07 Jun 2013 8:52:43am
Ahhh Dubious, playing your clever word games again eh?
First Nations? Ummmm no, no nation states, that is a modern furphy isn't it.
As for your rather bizarre comments about being an overseer.... is that how you think of all the teachers, doctors, nurses and other sundry balanda staff who keep these places running in the absence of enough viable locals? Overseers eh? Strange. Though just on that, why do you think overseers are needed. Riddle me that... I suspect you have a vague grasp of the answer but your ideology will prevent you typing it.
I do find it entertaining that yet again your contribution on this subject is almost solely to screech about the injustices of the past, like you've just woken up from a coma you've been in since the 80's. Here is the tip: we know, we get it. Now what we need is an honest appreciation of the situation in these community towns and then an honest discussion on how best to improve matters. I note that I've never noticed you actually put your hand up and come up with much on either facet.
After all it is so much easier to just safely screech about past injustices isn't it. And to denigrate anyone living remote as an overseer as an excuse not to 'muck in' and get your hands dirty yourself. Wouldn't want to run the risk of having your illusions shattered by reality.
In my experience 'missionary' types last about a month, maximum, before their eyes start to open. They tend not to make even the six month mark, in fact often not even the three month mark.
Jack66:
06 Jun 2013 10:33:22am
The world is full of countries built on racial supremism. or suppression.
We keep quoting OECD stats to justify what we do.
We keep saying who has approved gay marriage - to suggest we should follow.
So we can also do it with racial supremism - we also follow.
emess:
06 Jun 2013 10:54:32am
You first, and let us know the outcome when you have succeeded.
dubious the third:
06 Jun 2013 1:29:48pm
It's probably a life long process for most or even all of us, but many are so in denial that they can't see themselves as anything less than perfect in their prejudice.
Tory Boy:
06 Jun 2013 11:18:23am
Nobody is denying anything, the majority of us just dont care what happened 200 years ago, especially given the reduction in those horrible white faces in our modern cities.
Moreover, some of us actually have issues with the growing population from both a logistical and cultural perspective. For those in the open borders brigade, where are these people going to live and work, what are they going to eat, which hospitals will heal them, etc? As for culture, I for one reject the notion that all cultures are equal and can live side by side. Go visit an islamic nation, even a relatively liberal one, and see how life is like once your friends gain some level of control. Try being a woman and wearing lipstick at a bustop in indonesia. Try being gay in malaysia.
Bren:
06 Jun 2013 12:25:25pm
I don't think Jim is denying these aspects exist. why the author presumes to speak for all of 'us' is the insulting bit.
antipostmodernism:
06 Jun 2013 1:03:02pm
I am white and find it much easier to relate to other white people and prefer white values. We have a lot in common so I have justified concerns about alienation, standards, and social cohesion. Every race is proud of its identity and will defend it. It is understandable. Yet only white societies practice multiculturalism. Therefore, you might want to find a better target. Though I suspect that the cult of 'otherness' defies reason.
anote:
06 Jun 2013 9:43:55am
Good comment.
Also, politics is not a passive mirror of the society it serves and 'we' are not just passive clay. A great deal of misrepresentative manipulation and inducement takes place.
Voltaire:
06 Jun 2013 9:44:44am
Exactly Jim, exactly! How quick some commentators are to tar us all with the same hyperbolic brush!
lazarus:
06 Jun 2013 12:11:33pm
It's because you deserve to be tarred with the same brush, you are confidently racist in anonimity on the internet, are you as good in public?
Chris Graham:
06 Jun 2013 10:25:35am
Simple test Jim - if you're offended by this article, then you have a problem with racism. Hard to understand, I know, but then many alcoholics don't think they had a drinking problem either.
Lydia:
06 Jun 2013 1:29:03pm
Chris Graham , many people without drinking problems don't think they have a drinking problem either. By your logic the only people without problems are those that believe they have problems. In which case we don't have a problems with rascism or boat people.
MiG:
06 Jun 2013 11:18:48am
Jim,
The "immigration crisis" exists because we, the Australian people, allow it to exist. Assuming that you are a voting age Australian, then you are part of the "we". If no one was part of the we. there would simply be no problem.
John Coochey :
06 Jun 2013 8:26:53am
Interesting how the politically correct continue to use the words asylum seekers (actually asylum shoppers) and refugees as if they were interchangeable. They are not, people cease to be refugees once they have reached a safe haven. With the exception of four people who left Irian Jaya claiming political persecution every asylum seeker who has arrive in Australia has gone through or past many countries where they would have been safe but had a lower standard of living. The SBS carefully choreographed documentary interviewed a Somali who had gone to Rumania then Germany which he left on forged documents to come to Australia where he got residence. On camera he then returned to see his family who were all safe and well in the country that he had allegedly fled to avoid persecution. Balderdash!
D.G.:
06 Jun 2013 9:25:30am
"every asylum seeker who has arrive in Australia has gone through or past many countries where they would have been safe but had a lower standard of living"
Actually, what they've been through is countries which aren't signatories to the refugee convention, which don't recognise their asylum claims and treat them as illegal immigrants, which means those asylum seekers are at risk of imprisonment and deportation back to the country they're fleeing. That's not any kind of a safe haven. Also, why do people think that if an asylum seeker has the means to reach a first world country which actually has the capacity to resettle them, travelling to that country is somehow less moral than staying in and being a burden on a developing country which has enough trouble feeding its own people?
mike:
06 Jun 2013 10:13:33am
So why did they fly to such a country then? Why didn't they just fly to Australia to claim asylum, instead of flying to a non-signatory country and then getting on a leaky boat - a trip that costs far more than a flight to Australia?
D.G.:
06 Jun 2013 1:13:30pm
If asylum seekers can reach this country by plane, rather than by risking their lives in leaky boats, then they come by plane - traditionally that's how most asylum seekers have reached this country. If they aren't coming by plane, it's because they can't, because they can't get a visa. And they can't get a visa because we don't issue visas to people if we think the country they're in means they're likely to come here seeking asylum.
mike:
06 Jun 2013 2:25:37pm
Can you link to a government site that spells out such a policy? I have personally known people from Iran and other Middle East countries who flew here. They were granted visas. If you have some hard evidence to back up your claim then please post it - I would appreciate that very much in fact. But otherwise I can only assume you are making stuff up.
Lydia:
06 Jun 2013 1:41:46pm
Mike, most airlines won't fly a person to Australia unless they have a visa, or are easily able to get a visa at the airport. Australia demands that non Australia flying to Australia has a visa. In many countries there are no embassays eg Somalia. In countries with embassays such as Iran or Afghanisation, I think the approval of visas to visit Australia would be deliberately low.
If you are seeking asylum you are generally fleeing persecution and don't necessarily have the luxury to wait for the Australian Embassay to approve your visa application.
bilbo2:
06 Jun 2013 6:42:43pm
Asylum seekers only arrive in Australia on a plane or a leaky boat because there is a good chance of their being able to stay. If the laws that allowed that to happen were changed to make "self selection" impossible the large numbers arriving by irregular means will stop and a lot of taxpayers will be happier.
mike:
06 Jun 2013 6:48:00pm
I've known a number of people from Iran who flew here so I find your assertions hard to believe. They had visas.
AGB:
06 Jun 2013 10:40:25am
Not true DG.
There are now approx 150 countries that have either signed or at least acknowledge the provisions of the Convention.
Boat people self-select based on their perception of how generous governments are. I've personally heard first hand accounts of this.
D.G.:
06 Jun 2013 1:27:53pm
Can you list the countries that asylum seekers pass through on their way here that don't have a history of imprisoning and deporting refugees?
frangipani:
06 Jun 2013 2:32:46pm
@DG - Pakistan.
AGB:
06 Jun 2013 3:01:39pm
Really DG?
By definition, states that sign up to the Protols undertake not to arbitrarily imprison, etc refugees.
Go back far enough into any country's history and you'll find unsavory examples.
I suggest you actually take the time to read the document.
Rusty:
06 Jun 2013 10:44:03am
You are incorrect on two major issues.
Firstly,
Article 1(2) of the UN Convention Relating to the Status of Refugees lists persecution on the grounds of race, religion, nationality, membership of a particular social group or political opinion as legitimate reasons for claiming asylum.
If people are travelling for any other reason then they do not enjoy and never have enjoyed the coverage of the Convention due to the fact that they are not actually asylum seekers.
Secondly,
The UNHCR Convention reads:
"These agreements are ? based on the notion of safe, or first country of asylum" and goes on:
"Safe" is defined as a country where the asylum seeker is free from the threat of persecution. The concept of Safe Country of Asylum holds that an asylum seeker can correctly be returned to a country where refuge has been found and an opportunity to obtain asylum has been gained, on the proviso that the relevant country will not refoule".
So, under the terms of the Convention it is perfectly legal for Australia to return to Pakistan any Iraqis, Iranians and Afghanis who have travelled to Australia via Pakistan (a UNHCR signatory).
The Convention goes on to describe those who move on after entering a country of safe haven as "forum shoppers".
gosolarandpickupyourrubbish:
06 Jun 2013 1:15:04pm
Hi Rusty
Great. You're suggesting any refugee who hasn't passed through Pakistan (or other refugee rights signatory country)
has the right to be approaching.
I sense growth in you.
D.G.:
06 Jun 2013 1:26:38pm
"on the proviso that the relevant country will not refoule"
That's the critical point - in countries which treat asylum seekers as illegal immigrants, those asylum seekers can be deported back to the country they're fleeing. This is a very real risk for asylum seekers in Indonesia and Malaysia, for example.
John Coochey:
06 Jun 2013 3:42:46pm
So why do they go there then unless it is a staging post to a soft touch? They are not fleeing across a border but going globe trotting. A while ago there was an article in the UK left wing Guardian describing how you can buy any document you want in Kabul including death threats from the Taliban, written to order, and the favored country was always Australia. This was in a newspaper written for a UK audience!
WoodGnome:
06 Jun 2013 2:02:14pm
Pakistan is "Safe"???
frangipani:
06 Jun 2013 2:36:43pm
You're right on the first bit - the definition of a refugee - but wrong on the second.
It is not perfectly legal for Pakistan to return asylum seekers to Pakistan for a couple of reasons. First, Pakistan is most certainly not a UN Convention signatory. Second, it is not a "safe country" because it does not grant "protection" as defined in the Convention. That it doesn't actively persecute refugees on its territory is immaterial as to whether it is "safe" or not. And third, we can't deport people to a country of which they are not citizens. There is no way on this earth that Pakistan has any obligation to take in Afghans or Iranians shipped from Australian.
Tailgunner:
06 Jun 2013 10:54:29am
So DG, Jonathon Green and any here demonising the majority view in this country that WE have control of our borders and will decide who is to be afforded the opportunity to be resettled here as racist...Answer a simple question.
How many refugees (to the nearest thousand) should we as a country take in each year?
What do we then do when refugee 1 over that number arrives by a people smuggler boat?
Or is the assertion that we should take in all that wish to live here?
Is half a million poorly educated,non-English speaking people from cultures radically different from our modern,secular,open democracy per year enough? Or more still?
If you cannot answer then you are nothing more than a mindless bleeding heart, with no place commenting on any aspect of our immigration policy. Wring your hands at the plight of the millions(billions?) of people that would come here in a heartbeat in your own home,keep your utopian ideas to yourself.
D.G.:
06 Jun 2013 1:32:41pm
Unlike most countries, we have an ocean between us and the countries that refugees are fleeing. Countries that can be reached by land manage to cope with much greater numbers of refugees than we're ever going to see.
mike:
06 Jun 2013 2:27:39pm
You have evaded his question. How many do you think Australia should take in each year, and what would you do about those that exceed that limit?
whogoesthere:
06 Jun 2013 11:06:12am
'if an asylum seeker has the means to reach a first world country'
that's the point isn't it. Morality has nothing to do with it, if I was in their shoes I'd do the same. But, it is a user pays system. Imagine if our hospitals only treated people who could pay. You wouldn't criticise those who could afford it seeking treatment, but it wouldn't mean it was a 'good' system.
It seems those refugees who don't have the means to get to a first world country are left to rot, they are out of sight, out of mind, and forgotten by those compassionate refugee advocates. In fact some say the fact they have shown the initiative to get here in itself means they deserve a 'reward'. A very survival of the fittest attitude.
D.G.:
06 Jun 2013 1:29:49pm
"It seems those refugees who don't have the means to get to a first world country are left to rot."
Yes, and that's terrible, which is way we should take far more refugees than we do, and why we should go back to our old system where the number of UNHCR refugees we accept was decoupled from the number of plane and boat arrivals.
betty:
06 Jun 2013 1:58:20pm
And that very point confuses me greatly when it comes to our refugee intake.
Check out the camps on the M?decins Sans Fronti?res website. If ONLY those people could have the representation the same as those who have the money to get here by boat.
Again, money changes everything. Especially when you see how big of an industry asylum seekers and detention camps have become.
John Coochey:
06 Jun 2013 11:26:35am
Actually not true! But that is usually the case, for example Cambodia and the Phillipines not mention Vanu Atu are signatories to refugee conventions but they are not inundated, I wonder why? But why do you not deal with the Somali who appeared on the SBS documentary "Go Back Where You Came From" He did he was not persecuted and non of his family where they all looked in perfect health including his hundred year old grandmother. So why did he not stay in Germany? And as for having the capacity to settle them how many there tens or hundreds of millions of genuine refugees in the world how many do we take10, 000 or 10 million? And what happens when the 10001 or 10 millionth and one arrives? What do we do then?
SA:
06 Jun 2013 11:46:19am
not sure about that,
look at a map of the pathways taken, either signatory nations are bypassed or indeed traveled through.
You may mean, Indonesia - but even she has many offices for the UNHCR whilst not a signatory ...
D.G.:
06 Jun 2013 1:34:00pm
Yet actually getting access to and processed by the UNHCR in a timely manner still tends to be incredibly difficult for refugees.
John:
06 Jun 2013 12:01:07pm
The fact that a country is, or is not, a signatory to the 1951 Convention is totally irrelevant when it comes the the provision of safe haven or asylum.
All that is needed is that the country does not have a policy of automatic refoulement. If such a policy does not exist then asylum has been achieved. In any event, some of the countries through which these boat people travel en route to their selected destination, are signatories.
John Coochey is correct, and you would do well to heed his words.
D.G.:
06 Jun 2013 1:36:33pm
No policy of automatic refoulement is only a protection if refugees can actually get classified as refugees - which requires a quick and fair assessment of their status by the UNHCR, which most refugees can't get.
frangipani:
06 Jun 2013 2:39:25pm
Wrong. All countries have an obligation not to "refoule" refugees. It doesn't make them safe havens. And asylum involves more than not being refouled; it involves being given actually rights in the country you have reached. An asylum seeker in Malaysia or Indonesia may not be refouled, but he doesn't have asylum.
John:
06 Jun 2013 8:41:28pm
Wrong, Frangipani.
The Convention specifically rules that the first country entered by someone leaving his birth country is a place of "safe haven" if no refoulement rule applies.
There is no condition, requirement, obligation or even convention (other than pure humanitarian concern) that requires the host country to provide rights.
Yes, an asylum seeker in Indonesia or Malaysia does, quite specifically and actually, have asylum. He is not deported, in accordance with the "no refoulement" requirement, and he has safe haven
frangipani:
07 Jun 2013 8:19:06am
Wrong, John, on every point. First, the Convention doesn't mention "safe havens" at all. Second, it most certainly does place obligations on the host country "to provide rights:" the Convention specifically says that those who meet the definition of a refugee are entitled to protection, and to the right to work, have access to education, social services and the like. (Obviously, that's not on offer in Indonesia). Third, sixty years of international and domestic law have made it clear that a refugee can only be considered to have "protection" (ie "asylum") under the terms of the Convention if he has been formally recognised by a signatory state and the protection offered is in fact "effective." Asylum seekers in Malaysia and Indonesia do not have protection or asylum, period.
Think about it: why on earth do you think that countries like Canada and the US will accept asylum seekers who have transited through Europe? Because under the Convention, unless such asylum seekers have obtained formal asylum in Europe, they're still entitled to make a claim in Canada or the States, even if it's the fifteenth country they've travelled through. That's international law.
Frank:
06 Jun 2013 12:13:40pm
And the finger pointing here is also reason enough for Australia to abandon this stupid fixation about being a signatory to the United Nations. The United Nations is a crock, and a failed experiment in World Unity. No, these leaches (yes leaches) turning up on our shores in boats are just opportunists and nothing more. If the UN was any good at all, they would be stepping in and re-directing them to the back of the que (and directly from Indonesia). What a joke we have become under Rudd and Gillard, and the sooner they are done away with the better. The Indonesian Government is undeniably shoving these people onto our shores and should be held to account for that. The refugee industry in Australia (advocatesw and Lawyers) should also be held to account for the social and security problems here thart it is facilitating. End of story.
Sceptical Sam:
06 Jun 2013 12:39:26pm
Well DG, you've just nailed the answer to the illegal arrivals issue.
The counrties through which the so-called "refugees" passed are not signatories of the UN's Refugees Convention.
Accordingly, Australia should, at the earliest possible time, repeal its acquiescence to that outdated, outmoded and corrupted Convention.
Australia should offset that action by accepting only refugees that are processed in UN refugee camps as legitimate refugees. It should significantly increase its contribution to the establishment and maintenance of those camps as a quid pro quo.
John Coochey:
06 Jun 2013 12:53:35pm
Speaking of international conventions there is the Dublin Convention aka Dublin 2 which obliges those seeking refugee status to do so or from the first country of safe haven denying them any right to swan around the world looking for the richest country they can find to settle in.
frangipani:
06 Jun 2013 2:40:23pm
The Dublin Convention is strictly an arrangement among EU countries. It has no bearing on the situation outside the EU.
D.G.:
06 Jun 2013 4:17:51pm
Apart from other countries refugees pass through not actually being safe havens due to the risk of refoulement and imprisonment, as I said above, isn't settling in the richest country you can find the moral thing to do? The richest country, by definition, has the most capacity to deal with refugees. Traveling to such a country, if you can, is a more moral thing to do than being a burden on a poor country which has little capacity to resettle refugees.
dinohtar:
06 Jun 2013 1:05:11pm
just to support D.C comment, this is a list of the countries that have signed.
http://www.unhcr.org/3b73b0d63.html
toneees crayon:
06 Jun 2013 10:37:31am
so can we apply that rule of thumb to our next prime minister who came to aust on a boat as part of a family fleeing the poor state of the U.K? How come tony didn't get off in france or Portugal or spain etc etc or even south Africa his boat glided past all of these countries???
people who seek refuge in another country be it for ecconmoic hardship or political are refugees, Australia is founded on our ancestors seeking a better life than what they had in their country of origin.
frangipani:
06 Jun 2013 2:42:01pm
Refugees are people who have a well-founded fear of persecution. People who flee economic hardship are not refugees. Period.
As for Abbott, he was an Australian citizen by birth because his mother was an Australian.
Daisy May:
06 Jun 2013 3:13:40pm
That is rather odd... Abbott's mother is Australian.. his father was educated in Australia and they married and went back to the UK after WW2... How did they qualify to return, on the back of the Australian taxpayer, as 10 pound poms?
frangipani:
06 Jun 2013 6:58:10pm
His father had lived in Aus before the war, and had skills - I suspect he was the ten pound pom and the family came along as collateral.
FB:
06 Jun 2013 3:46:22pm
Julia Gillard was born in Wales before her family emmigrated to Australia, so I'm not sure what point you are trying to make?
Rusty:
06 Jun 2013 4:45:21pm
tonee,
They might be refugees but they are NOT asylum seekers. Big difference.
alex in Canberra:
06 Jun 2013 10:49:00am
Want less asylum seekers coming down John? Easy solution. Tell your govt - of both persuasions - to stop invading and blowing up their home countries, eg, Vietnam, Cambodia, Iraq, Afghanistan. It won't stop all of them mind you, just most of them. So hate refugees as you see fit but a good first step will be stopping the actions that cause the problem.
John Coochey:
06 Jun 2013 1:36:48pm
So why are asylum shoppers seeking refuge in the countries that oppressed them? There have never been any Australian troops in Cambodia so what exactly is your point?
AGB:
06 Jun 2013 1:56:30pm
So by extending your logic alex, the flow of aslym seeks is about to stop, given we've pulled out of Iraq, leaving Afghanistan next year and doing everything possible to avoid getting dragged into Syria.?
Not quite ha?
Maybe take a look at the 'pull' factors mate.
mike:
06 Jun 2013 2:30:54pm
So what are "we" doing to Sri Lanka and Iran - the primary sources of boatpeople lately? Your comment is nonsensical.
frangipani:
06 Jun 2013 2:42:36pm
Must have missed the part where Australia invaded Sri Lanka or Iran.
John:
06 Jun 2013 3:36:41pm
Oh boy, how wrong can you be in one short post?
The Vietnamese that we took in were not fleeing us - they were fleeing from their own, internal, Communist oppressors.
The Cambodians were desperately trying to escape from similar internal purges. Pol Pot wasn't your run-of-the-mill Santa Claus, you know. He wiped out more than 25% of the entire population.
The Afghans have fought sectional wars amongst themselves for centuries. Try reading William Dalrymple's latest book "Return of a King" for the historical position.
The iraqis were fleeing from that same old Sunni/Shia civil war long before the West took an interest. And the Kurds fled from Saddam's chemical warfare.
juliet jones:
06 Jun 2013 12:53:31pm
So you know what people went though. Refugees are regularly murdered in Pakistan and Indonesia. Can't you look stuff up? Do you have to parrot Scott Morrison?
Rusty:
06 Jun 2013 4:46:50pm
Juliet,
And refugees have committed violent crimes in Australia - so what is your point?
Act Rationally:
06 Jun 2013 8:27:55am
"we will decide who comes to this country and the circumstances in which they come"
That is actually a core function of government and as such is a perfectly fine and responsible statement.
Seriously Jon, you have exposed a whole bunch of your political and ideological prejudices in this piece. Anti-border control, anti-intervention, etc. That's fine, all are entitled to their opinion. But you are reinforcing the concerns brought to bear about the recent survey (albeit with a limited sample) that ABC journo's are Labor and Green voters. As an employee of the ABC (funded with taxpayers money) you should not be paid to use the national broadcaster to sprout your political and ideological opinions. Phrases like 'what else' repeated throughout your piece demonstrates that you have no actual evidence: you are just projecting your own prejudices onto the population.
This country is actually in pretty good shape, despite what we hear about our politicians.
sdrawkcaB:
06 Jun 2013 10:20:17am
Has the debate now become if you express leniency towards boat arrivals then you are anti- border control?
I hope you are not breaking it down to a bipolar issue. That would be the logical fallacy of false alternatives and would be against your non de plume.
Magpie:
06 Jun 2013 10:39:43am
But we did decide who could come. It's been perfectly legal for a refugee to come to Australia by boat for many decades. We've said "you can come". Then they came. The law still says they can.
What have they done wrong?
AGB:
06 Jun 2013 3:57:04pm
Question: 'What have they done wrong?'
Answer: Rorted an important international instrument of law intended to help genuine political refugees.
Applaudanum:
06 Jun 2013 11:24:04am
"This country is actually in pretty good shape, despite what we hear about our politicians."
Surely you mean, despite what we hear from our politicians.
Tristan:
06 Jun 2013 11:25:02am
"we will decide who comes to this country and the circumstances in which they come"
And you Act Rationally are perpetuating the myth that John Howard, now Tony Abbott and Scott Morrison's rhetoric about "turning back the boats" was a great success.
The Indonesian Ambassador already revealed to Radio Australia that Opposition Foreign Minister Julie Bishop had already told him that the Coalition wouldn't be turning all the boats back, and would only do it with the Indonesian government's permission, which we all know by now, they don't have.
So Tony Abbott, Scott Morrison and Julie Bishop are either bare faced liars lying to the Australian public, or their bare faced liars lying to the Indonesian government.
I'd say it's both.
Tristan:
06 Jun 2013 11:25:46am
"we will decide who comes to this country and the circumstances in which they come"
And you Act Rationally are perpetuating the myth that John Howard, now Tony Abbott and Scott Morrison's rhetoric about "turning back the boats" was a great success.
The Indonesian Ambassador already revealed to Radio Australia in 2012 that Opposition Foreign Minister Julie Bishop had already told him that the Coalition wouldn't be turning all the boats back, and would only do it with the Indonesian government's permission, which we all know by now, they don't have.
So Tony Abbott, Scott Morrison and Julie Bishop are either bare faced liars lying to the Australian public, or their bare faced liars lying to the Indonesian government.
I'd say it's both.
notinventedhere:
06 Jun 2013 1:05:33pm
Which is why we are easily and painlessly absorb the folks who arrive by boat. Just let them in. It will be cheaper and generate economic growth, and avoid the moral hazard and expense of Christmas Island, Nauru, Manus island, etc.
It is not stop the boats - it is stop wasting money on stopping them.
Mark James:
06 Jun 2013 1:20:41pm
Act Rationally, based on a poll of 34 people, you draw the conclusion that "ABC journo's are Labor and Green voters"?
It obviously doesn't take much to give the rational actor a dose of confirmational bias, does it?
Rocky:
06 Jun 2013 1:34:27pm
""we will decide who comes to this country and the circumstances in which they come"
That is actually a core function of government and as such is a perfectly fine and responsible statement. "
Utter garbage.
The government has a role to determine who can stay, and for how long, but no mandate to determine who arrives and how. None whatsoever.
John:
07 Jun 2013 8:36:45am
Utter garbage, Rocky.
The function of Government is to protect the citizenry, and this includes the duty of keeping the country safe. That means that unsafe or undesirable persons must be kept out. And that means that the Government not only has a mandate but also an absolute obligation to determine who shall be allowed entry and to decide who is not suitable for entry.
Like the Sri Lankan Tamil Tiger who arrived with a supply of cyanide.
Tiresias:
06 Jun 2013 5:11:29pm
Howard's 'Pacific Solution has been widely criticised around the world for its disregard for the Convention, its inhumanity and the lies used as spin in its implementation (the word 'illegal' is still being used by the Coalition) . When Howard allowed the refugees to come to Oz or NZ, the game was up. Refugees knew the way to Oz was through Nauru. Blocks have been put in the way of Labor when they pursued a more humane policy. The Houston Report offered a whole range of approaches, some of which had been denied implementation. We now have a Pacific Solution Plus' which has not worked for Labor and will not work for the Coalition. Despite all the hoo-ha, no one has offered a workable, surefire solution.
Strangely, we never had such vitriolic attack on refugees in the past: from Europe after WW2 and from South-East Asia after the Vietnam War. But we have this hatred, fear and prejudice against people who are Muslim or from Muslim countries. Why is that? The effect of 9/11 perhaps?
GregL:
06 Jun 2013 8:27:58am
Jonathon. To a large extent I agree with your comments. However, I do not agree that this is only an "Australian" shame.
I have recently returned from some time in the UK and the major issue of the day there is, guess what, immigration. Fear, nationalism and xenophobia are being driven by groups and it is working in their favour. The United Kingdom Independence Party (UKIP) has made collossal inroads into mainstream politics with a message of fear and demonising of immigration, and the wider interaction of the UK with Europe. The conversation is the same as here, "those" people come here and are treated like royalty", "I have paid taxes all my life and get nothing" (both of which are nonsense of course) and the list goes on. The American election was also dominated to some extent by immigration issues.
The common factor is that when times get tougher the scapegoating gets going. This occurs most heavily where people are marginalised economically and these are the constituencies that have the real power to change governments. In this country this is centred on outer metropolitan seats across the nation. So yes, fear is induced, prejudice tapped, nationalism and xenophobia enlisted.
Unfortuately, when times get tough refugees, immigrants etc are, and will always in the firing line, no matter where you live. Politicians across the ages have known this and exploit it.
Bob Bobbings:
06 Jun 2013 9:20:44am
But what's different about Australia is that it is close to being the most comfortable nation on the planet, yet scapegoating is still rife. Without condoning it, you can understand why the millions of UK poor might turn on 'outsiders'. We don't have the excuse of a class system and large-scale entrenched poverty, yet outsiders are still excoriated. It is endemic to our trivial and wholly materialistic culture which values physical comfort and conformance above everything. We are our own pet rabbits (and that's all we are for the most part).
If, providence forbid, we go through genuinely tough times, Australia will get very ugly indeed.
Tombowler:
06 Jun 2013 10:05:22am
You know, Bob, the UK was once a very comfortable place, not riven by division and racked with poverty too...
bill:
06 Jun 2013 1:23:05pm
when was that? like to cite a time so we can go back and get hte data on the crime, social inequality, wage inequality etc that existed during this utopia?
we always seem to have to do the leg work for you, since you never provide any actual evidence.
Mark James:
06 Jun 2013 1:40:58pm
Tombowler, could you say when it was that the UK was a very comfortable place not riven by division and poverty?
As far as I'm aware, the only time the UK wasn't riven by division was when it was fighting a common enemy. And in those times it neither particularly comfortable nor devoid of poverty.
Possibly you're referring to the two shell-shocked, post-WWII decades in which the Cold War bubbled quietly beneath the surface and the economy boomed due to large-scale immigration from the 'colonies'?
mjm:
06 Jun 2013 12:33:36pm
Agree with you Bob.
I find it once again embarrassing to be an Australian. I thought as we matured we might be better than what now seems to permeate our society.
Knowing some refugees I know their stories and they are trying their best to contribute to our society. Most cannot believe how lucky we are compared to the repression they have experienced.
It saddens me to see how nasty the psyche of our country has become.
John:
06 Jun 2013 3:42:14pm
If you don't want to be an Australian, why don't you pay $US15,000 to a people smuggler to smuggle you into Afghanistan?
There is a well-worn route between the two places - via Indonesia, Greece, Turkey, Iraq, Iran, Pakistan and Afghanistan.
You can obtain asylum in any of those places.
Aussie Sutra:
06 Jun 2013 10:34:41am
The UK is being destroyed by uncontrolled immigration. What precisely is the objective of all of this in your mind I wonder? Should all borders be removed from all nations forthwith? If so, put a flag in the sand on that and discuss your objective honestly. Because that is what you are suggesting with your post. And if you think that the day we do away with passports and open every border on Earth that there will not be utter mayhem and your life won't be forever changed in negative ways, you'd be wrong.
Mark James:
06 Jun 2013 1:46:25pm
Aussie Sutra, the closest the UK has come to being destroyed was just prior to any cooridinated push for immigration.
And those who would have destroyed it were actually white christians, heirs to its own Anglo-Saxon heritage.
You might also like to ponder how the UK economy would ever have recovered after WWII had it not embraced large-scale immigration from "the colonies".
Barney in Saigon:
06 Jun 2013 1:48:48pm
I always thought immigration in the UK was just the colonies returning the favour of Empire.
Tristan:
06 Jun 2013 11:28:16am
That's why we have redneck parties like One Nation, the Australia First party, and Pastor Danny Nalliah's religious fundamentalist Catch the Fire Ministry's, Rise Up Australia party.
Scott Morrison and Cory Bernardi would approve.
Bre:
06 Jun 2013 8:32:07am
I am heartbroken at the decent into the mire that Australia has taken - especially in the past number of years. I find the the ugliness of the debate distressing, disturbing and completely out of touch with the way my social and professional connections lead me to understand the sentiment in society.
I feel as revolted as if I was watching a pit fight - my one sin being that I allowed myself to view it.
We can turn this around - one step at a time.The Prime Minister must turn and speak to the sandwich thrower and say "I am the Prime Minister of this Country. You will afford me the respect that my office deserves".
We should all take that one small step, every day.
sdrawkcaB:
06 Jun 2013 9:27:07am
It appears the next prime Minister is Abbott.
For me, I could not careless what office he holds. If he wants my respect then he will bloody well earn it.
At present, he has a long, long way to go.
Aussie Sutra:
06 Jun 2013 10:37:35am
I am unable, currently, to think of even one politician in Australia, of any colour, stripe or side of the aisle, who is worthy of respect of any kind.
Gordon:
06 Jun 2013 2:08:39pm
And yet, in a relatively free and honest system, these are the people we elect. What you are saying is that in every electorate, ever senate quota, every state & shire council the majority of Australians are uniformly and absolutely wrong.
The alternative is a government that represents a minority interest that you (or I) just happen to approve of. Surely you can see the pointlessness of wishing for such a thing.
Sceptical Sam:
06 Jun 2013 12:41:46pm
I'm sure he'll be a lot less careless than you.
Bob Bobbings:
06 Jun 2013 9:47:11am
Your "social and professional connections" are way out of touch with the mainstream (which only cares about shopping and sport, and will put up with outsiders, to a point, as long as those priorities seem unthreatened).
Head outwards a few suburbs and listen out for barbecue conversations. It'll make your hair stand on end.
grega:
06 Jun 2013 10:53:25am
yes, spot on Bob the far right conservatives will have a lot to answer for in allowing the once very liberal party to be taken over by racists and bigots.
Only had to see the dumb comments bernadi made when asked on Q&A about the current influx of boat arrivals.
cheers
grega
John:
06 Jun 2013 12:04:03pm
Don't bother to do that.
Listen to Laurie Ferguson.
Observation:
06 Jun 2013 12:32:26pm
Yes, I was at a bbq not long ago when a young woman said loudly 'can I just say I hate the boat people' she went on at some length in this way..... Frightening stuff, I wish I'd had the courage to tell her to stop.
mike:
06 Jun 2013 12:51:19pm
Seeing the footage of all those poor people drowning off Christmas Island made my hair stand on end, and made me want to stop the boats to prevent any more horrors like that.
Tombowler:
06 Jun 2013 9:48:30am
We can turn this around - one step at a time.The Prime Minister must turn and speak to the sandwich thrower and say "I am the Prime Minister of this Country. You will afford me the respect that my office deserves".
Not at all. The Prime Minister, in our egalitarian democracy, can earn respect by her deeds and words, just as any other citizen must.
I thought we didn't want to bow and scrape to our 'betters' anymore.
She can toughen up or resign and enjoy the presumption of privacy given a private citizen.
Daisy May:
06 Jun 2013 11:50:15am
Sandwiches today... bombs tomorrow eh Tb. That's ok in your world is it?
I for one believe that the office of Prime Minister deserves respect...even if the incumbent on occassions has not.
OverIt:
06 Jun 2013 2:32:10pm
I have zero respect for the Prime Minister. However, the idea that it's okay to throw a sandwich at someone you don't agree with needs to be jumped on.
Here's hoping that neither case was condoned by the student's parents, regardless of their political beliefs.
OUB :
06 Jun 2013 2:34:25pm
That's just cant isn't it DM? How much respect did you have for the office of Prime Minister when Howard had the big chair? Did you ever object to others when they showed disrespect? Of course not.
Gillard was assaulted. Get the little runt before the authorities and say no more about it.
Lucyb:
06 Jun 2013 11:58:44am
Doesn't matter who the PM is - some will respect and some will disrespect the person so any talk of earning respect is entirely subjective. The blogger you replied to is talking about the Office of Prime Minister and it seems to me that as that relates to the leader of our country it should definitely be respected regardless of the holder. While I take your point about not kowtowing to people in authority, I still believe that abdicating any respect for our leaders is highly regrettable. Sandwich throwing and yelling obscenities are just appalling.
dmills:
06 Jun 2013 12:22:48pm
Are you implying that the PM's "words and deeds" warranted the sandwich throwing?
And that a child or any random person is justified in doing this (or similar) if in their judgement (or lack of it) such an act is warranted?
I think that throwing a sandwich (or an egg, apple, etc.) at anyone is probably illegal. As for a PM ... If someone threw a sandwich at a Judge, an Electoral Officer or a Council Worker would you then state it depended on their "words and deeds" whether an unjust or illegal act was committed? I suggest it'd only be justified for very extreme "words and deeds" of the sort where the sandwich thrower could argue self-defence, - not because he or she didn't like or approve of the way the official was performing their duty.
Ann:
06 Jun 2013 12:23:50pm
Since when is *not* throwing a sandwich at someone bowing and scraping? It appears I bow and scrape to everyone I meet every day, and I think you probably do as well, by your own definition.
Dove:
06 Jun 2013 12:27:15pm
Go into a courthouse. Throw a sandwich at the judge and find out if we separete the person from the office in Australia. Call me with your one phone call from the cells!
Levi:
06 Jun 2013 12:31:53pm
"Not at all. The Prime Minister, in our egalitarian democracy, can earn respect by her deeds and words, just as any other citizen must."
Not at all. I had no respect for Howard's policies, deeds or words, but I would not have thrown a sandwich or anything else at him. It is not a question of bowing and scraping to our 'betters' as you put it, it is just common courtesy to the office. Something that has gone out the window in this term of parliament thanks to the aggressiveness of the opposition who have led the way in actively encouraging disrespect. One can only hope that they will reap what they have sown.
Mel:
06 Jun 2013 5:20:37pm
Actually, I think respect was lost for the office of PM when Rudd was removed.
All of the sudden, us average Australians saw that the prime ministership was nothing more than a puppet of the respective party, rather than a leader we elected. So therefore the PM gets no more (or less) respect than any other pollie.
Jimmy Necktie:
06 Jun 2013 1:34:30pm
IMO she should have stopped there and then, taken the student aside for a quick quiet word and asked them what the problem was. She should then have continued with her speech and kept the conversation private.
Again IMO, that would have gained her some respect from several sides.
Andrew:
06 Jun 2013 4:33:21pm
I disagree. It is the office of PM that deserves respect, regardless of your opinion of the person in that position. It is the same with other public servants eg police. Disrespect for these offices undermines our society. I would rather see that the sandwich thrower be made an example of.
Tristan:
06 Jun 2013 11:32:53am
Tombowler,
And if Tony Abbott expects to be PM, he can stop being so gutless and present his policies and costings to the electorate to be analysed and debated. And do it now, not 2 weeks before the election. What has the chicken got to hide?
Abbott, Scott Morrison and Julie Bishop are such yellow bellies that they haven't even been honest with the Indonesian government, while they've constantly parrotted "Stop the boats", "We will turn back the boats", members of the Indonesian government confirmed they never directly discussed their boats policy when the Indonesians visited Australia or when the Coalition visited Indonesia.
OUB :
06 Jun 2013 2:51:20pm
Just be patient Tristan. All good things come to those who wait. You didn't demand Rudd release his 2007 policies at a time that would suit the government of the day did you? You didn't even object when he broke his promises and dumped the bulk of his policies on the market when it was too late for Treasury to cost them I'll wager. So put the hypocrisy away for a while and behave.
Tristan:
06 Jun 2013 6:44:16pm
OUB,
The Coalition are the ones that introduced the Charter of Budget Honesty. What a laugh!
What possible reason would they have to wait until 2-3 weeks before the election to release their policies and costings?
Their afraid of scrutiny of course.
Abbott released his fraudband policy and it was widely condemned as a piece of inferior garbage.
It's just like the 2004 election all over again. No campaigning at all on Workchoices, then we got harsh IR reforms in 2005 because of idiot voters.
Idiot voters also gave us the GST.
Think first...:
06 Jun 2013 1:19:20pm
You can't demand respect - any attempt to try will most likely result in resentment. Respect must be earned.
The sandwhich thrower had no respect for the PM - but why was the PM doing a meet and greet with school kids? I think it was purely to seen as a rock star. "Hey look, all these kids think I'm cool - vote for me so your kids you're cool" - what garbage.
I would have thought if a PM was visiting a school, they should take the opportunity to address the students, perhaps even give an award or other such thing. "Running the hall" is not something becoming of a PM.
I'd challenge you to watch that footage again - do you think the students were in awe of the PM, or simply wanting to get themselves on TV?
emess:
06 Jun 2013 8:34:09am
Jonathan, your article could have been made more succinct by simply saying: Australians are racist, so there!
As an opinion, on an opinion site, fair enough. But you know, you could have stated that opinion in one sentence, and then spent the rest of the piece in defending that opinion and/or proposing an alternative.
As it stands, all I get out of the article is that if someone doesn't agree with a particular immigration policy, then they are racist, and since most people in Australia don't agree, then ergo they are racist.
The foreclosure of debate by labelling opponents with names like 'racist' is more than tedious, it is dangerous, since lack of debate is a sure way of getting bad policy.
Meh!
whogoesthere:
06 Jun 2013 9:38:58am
Absolutely. Racism as a word has lost any meaning. Calling someone a 'racist' achieves nothing. If they are, it won't change them, if they are not they will stop listening to you.
Silly, stupid, pathetic, childish rubbish.
I would prefer if we could 'stop the boats' and take more refugees like my African hairdresser who waited in a camp for ten years, therefore I am a racist. Crazy stuff.
Magpie:
06 Jun 2013 10:43:08am
What's stopping us taking more refugees, boats or otherwise? It's quite a recent change that reduced our refugee settlement by the number of boat arrivals. We didn't used to. We don't have to.
Poor countries look after most of the world's refugees. Why are we so gutless?
mike:
06 Jun 2013 2:35:01pm
Maybe we don't want to become a poor country too?
Orchardo:
06 Jun 2013 11:59:23am
A bit like calling someone 'silly', 'stupid' or 'pathetic'?
lazarus:
06 Jun 2013 12:36:36pm
Yes, you are racist it seems. The "others" you know are ok but but the rest it seems are fair game, a bit like my old grandmother and aboriginals.
mike:
06 Jun 2013 12:52:13pm
It is the present equivalent of pointing the bone or labelling someone a witch.
bill:
06 Jun 2013 1:26:56pm
and Id prefer if we hadnt wasted 10 years with this manufactured hysteria, given that the number of boat people in the period since the 'Tampa' gave Howards dog-whistling racism new life would not even come close to filling the MCG.
such venom, such vitriole, such unmasked hatred in the community over so few people.
OverIt:
06 Jun 2013 2:39:10pm
The accusation of racism is used on many occasion by some cultures when they think they can gain some advantage by doing so. Many's the time in a former job when I would hear people approaching the counter, chatting away IN ENGLISH, then when I explained why their request couldn't go ahead or why it had to be rejected, based on existing rules and regs, suddenly they 'no speak English' and made accusations like 'why you let my neighbour do so and so and not me? That racist!' The whole team knew it, but then had to waste time pussyfooting around the fake racism allegation instead of spending the time actually helping people. And I have to say, there was one race that was particularly good at it.
But no, only white people are racist, right?
Jade:
06 Jun 2013 11:38:59am
How do you know she was a refugee?
Working with a lot of African "refugees" I find it amusing that Australians have no idea and think that because they waited in a camp that makes them somehow "legitimate". For one, many are from the group doing the persecuting, not the persecuted group. Since many African "refugees" are from nomadic tribes in the middle of nowhere, they often don't have birth certificates or any real form of documentation. They buy false ones. Often, during famine (which is not a reason for refugee status), its better for the families to live in refugee camps. So they do. Doesn't make them refugees.
I know of one young "refugee" who was deported for beating up his Australian girlfriend, as well as lying about his marital status (she found out he had a couple of wives back in Africa and reported him to immigration). He was back out here a few months later under his dead cousin's passport.
Tom1:
06 Jun 2013 8:35:52am
Where does the Liberal Party dig up these morons that it unfortunately appears are going to be Ministers in a new liberal Government. (God forbid)
Just heard Scott Morrison carrying on with confected outrage, repeating the words "Convicted Jihadist" about four times in every sentence.
This must be straight from the LNP's advice to its Ministers booklet of how to continue the fear and loathing that has been the trade mark of this opposition.
Someone should tell Morrison that the "Convicted Jihadist" would probably not be in Australia if they showed a bit of bipartisanship. He would be cooling his heels in Malaysia.
Tombowler:
06 Jun 2013 9:50:10am
Well, the guy was a 'convicted jihadist'. I'm a voter and I certainly don't want a jihadist who knows what he's talking about hitting up Lakemba Mosque; just as I don't want Anders Brevik teaching lunatic far-rightists how to shoot.
We aren't we entitled to know the man is a convicted jihadist?
Tom1:
06 Jun 2013 12:35:56pm
Tombowler: Of course you are. However you should get in touch with Morrison and tell him you are one of his supporters, but you are not so thick that you have to hear the same fear mongering expression over and over to get the message.
The "Convicted Jihadist" was comfortably locked in a detention centre, and has committed no known offence in Australia. He is now in a more secure detention centre, rightfully so. Brevik was a national, and slaughtered his fellow citizens.
Xnophobia is not a thing on which the colour of our government should be decided. Agreed it worked for Howard, but Australians around the world declared that they were ashamed it admit their nationality after his effort. Abbott and Morrison have sunk to the same depths.
l
aargh:
06 Jun 2013 12:43:55pm
You are assuming that the Egyptian legal system gives people a fair trial.
genfie:
06 Jun 2013 1:54:12pm
WTH is a "convicted Jihadist". Do you just repeat what you hear on TV without thinking? There is no such thing. It's a nonsensical label.
He is a convicted murderer who had admitted to being a member of a group we list as being a terrorist group. We know this because *he told us*. He left Egypt because of persecution from the Mubarak government who convicted him of premeditated murder in absentia. He should have been in a higher level of detention but he was always in detention.
The questions are: if he was fleeing persecution by the Mubarak government then to what extent do we privilege the murder conviction?; once he admitted to membership of a terrorist organisation why wasn't he moved immediately to a higher level fo detention?; what on Earth do this have to do with this whole conversation anyway?
If terrorists want to get into this country, they'll fly in with visas and papers. These organisations are wealthy multinational criminal gangs. They don't need to get someone in on a leaky boat that might very well sink when they're going to be put into detention when they get there. That's just stupid. In fact, the whole discussion is stupid.
smarteye:
06 Jun 2013 10:10:39am
Yes Tom, you definitely won't see our Scottie laughing about his talking points (a la Joel Fitzgibbon). Not clever enough to have a sense of humour.
Sadly, there's a queue of these geniuses waiting to become ministers: Abbetz, Brandis, shadow spokesman for crap (sorry - climate change) Geg Hunt and on it goes...
Bean Counter:
06 Jun 2013 10:42:24am
Tom1. But isn't Malaysia a non-signatory to the UN Convention?
Do you mean to say that you accept that non-UN Convention Signatories can be safe havens? You are now accepting that the LNP assertion that the boat arrivals are NOT in danger (in Indonesia, in Malaysia etc; are already safe) and not in need of asylum...are correct.
Following a fake religion like ALPism is doing your head in Tom1!
Tom1:
06 Jun 2013 1:53:34pm
Bean Counter: So you to have joined the fake queue that believes in a new found concern for the human rights of boat arrivals by the Opposition.
Not being a signatory to the UN convention on Refugees does not mean that that nation regularly puts them on the rack, or up against the wall.
The Government has sought and received assurances.
If our treatment of refugees, to be made worse by the Opposition, are a sign of the UN convention, I doubt that the said refugees would see much difference.
Of course you have overlooked the fact that it is reasonable to assume that very few refugees would find themselves back in Malaysia, unless you can tell us why they would spend so much money to finish up other than at their preferred destination.
You mention Indonesia, strange. That is where Abbott says he intends to return the boats to.
OverIt:
06 Jun 2013 8:14:41pm
Well if an Indonesian boat enters Australian waters without authorisation, where else would you expect it to be returned to?
genfie:
06 Jun 2013 10:52:44am
Also being a Jihadist is not actually a crime so the term "convicted Jihadist" is as nonsensical as "illegal boat arrivals". He might be a terrorist. He's definitely a convicted murderer. But you can hardly be charged and convicted for being "someone who struggles". But then, as someone who once spent four hours on Twitter trying to explain basic migration law to Scott Morrison, I can assert he has trouble with things like "what words mean". Which further supports my contention that Australia is made up of conservatives and people who actually own dictionaries.
Tristan:
06 Jun 2013 11:38:23am
Someone remind Scott Morrison that the then Liberal government owned Australian Wheat Board (AWB) was receiving kickbacks and funding Saddam Hussein's regime in Iraq, while we were waging war with them.
Also remind Scott Morrison about John Howard's and Alexander Downer's selective memory loss in unable to recall thei extent of their involvement in the AWB scandal.
Not to mention how John Howard removed Aid Watch's charitable status and funding sources, when Aid Watch revealed how the Howard government had used foreign aid money to write off Iraqi foreign debts in light of the government's involvement in the scandal, and used foreign aid money to pay for the Liberal's legal bills in fighting the charges.
OUB :
06 Jun 2013 3:00:25pm
Tristan you are talking rubbish. AWB was a company with shares held by growers. They listed on the share market a month before 911 (2001). The second Gulf War commenced 19/03/03.
Peter:
06 Jun 2013 11:58:24am
You really think that a deal to take 800 people in exchange for 4000 makes any sense. That is about 2 weeks arrivals. What then mystro
Tristan:
06 Jun 2013 3:36:43pm
Let's not forget Howard's Atlantic solution and the people swap deal with the USA to swap our refugees with those from Haiti and Cuba.
Bender:
06 Jun 2013 10:51:49pm
Peter I work inside the immigration detention network and happened to be stationed at Christmas Island in 2011 whilst the Malaysian Solution was in force (between the months of April when it was announced and October when the Courts struck it down as not being compatible with the current Australian law)
During that period we had less then 500 arrivals. Those months encompass the height of the season (the monsoon between November and March usually slows the traffic down). That was a 90% decrease on 2010 (over the same period) when we had more then 5,000 arrive.
The Malaysian Solution worked, the mere threat of being sent there prevented people from getting on the boats. You cannot argue the numbers. Abbott directed the Liberals to vote against the legislation for one very simple, undeniable reason, boat arrivals were an easy way to hammer the Government and Abbott doesn't want the boats to stop as long as he's in opposition. It's going to be very interesting to see how he plans on stopping the boats when he gains power. Unless he actually removes Australia from the Refugee Convention the boats won't stop because Asylum Seekers know they have a legal right to come here and have their claims heard.
Zaphod:
06 Jun 2013 12:23:18pm
Hold on Tom1, you you obviously argue against raciscm and vilification, but don't seem to have approblem with calling people who have a different opinion to you as "morons'. Don't throw any stones at your glass house, me thinks.
Pop:
06 Jun 2013 12:35:52pm
Well Tom, the reality is that he is a convicted Jihadist, he was in low security detention, and my question to you is, do you want that sitting behind a pool fence?
That's the reality of the conversation.
For what it is worth, I don't.
Tristan:
06 Jun 2013 3:39:06pm
Let's not forget that after extensive lobbying by Liberal MPs, and donations by relatives to the Liberal party, Amanda Vanstone intervened in a deportation case and allowed a person with links to the mafia to remain in the country, despite a negative character assessment by former Immigration Minister Phillip Ruddock.
calyptorhynchus:
06 Jun 2013 8:36:05am
Which the media has largely created.
JRM:
06 Jun 2013 9:43:24am
spot on.
Its the media that flog this horse to death.
I travel the world.
Australia is definitely more tolerant than many. UN opinsions - who cares.
For people who follow the application process as long as it is, do all the forms and patiently wait for approvals
at great time and cost - its a kick in the guts when others can roll up and get processed at our expense.
It is not racist to ask for some sort of compliance to procedures. Do we allow the ATO to be so lenient ?
Bean Counter:
06 Jun 2013 10:45:37am
JRM. If one day it came to light that there was a group of same-ethnic-background people working at the ATO, who were giving their fellow same-ethnic-background mates, big refunds and concessions etc....of course it would be racist for anyone to object.
This is the major mental illness aspect of leftism in action!
Dazza:
06 Jun 2013 2:45:38pm
That would be no different to Abbott giving his rich and wealthy mates big tax concessions and getting them back onto welfare like Howard did?
We can't even be racist to our own skin colour either!!
Your "major mental illness aspect" claim can work both ways!!
Applaudanum:
06 Jun 2013 11:30:17am
"Do we allow the ATO to be so lenient"
Lenience in tax affairs seems to be afforded to those who can easily afford it.
Tristan:
06 Jun 2013 11:41:07am
The Cronulla riots and Alan Jones showed a different side of Australia, as did Joe Hildebrande's ABC program "Dumb, Drunk and Racist".
Then there's tabloid current affairs like A Current Affair and Today Tonight that bogans like to watch for news and information, not entertainment and material for The Chasers' "What Have We Learnt from Current Affairs This Week?".
Jade:
06 Jun 2013 11:53:38am
Compliance with immigration procedures might not be your top priority when your children and family could die.
John:
06 Jun 2013 1:45:16pm
Would they be less likely to die if I made my way illegally to a country half way across the globe and left them to languish at home?
Tristan:
06 Jun 2013 6:47:00pm
That's why you see family groups on boats.
Under both the LNP and ALP, the family reunion scheme was clawed back, and temporary protection visas and bridging visas mean that people can't sponsor their relatives legitimately.
the bolter:
06 Jun 2013 10:43:18am
yes the media do like to run with the pack so as to speak when failing to report truth rather than spin. the media enjoy serving up gossip and rumour rather than report and promote informed debate that can help raise public awareness about issues. When a minister or opposition member publically says things that are wrong then the reporters should highlight this rather than allow falsehoods to end up being believed as truth.
the debate about foreign workers could have been better reported by the media as its been allowed to become a racial issue rather than a purely employment issue.
Caroline:
06 Jun 2013 8:36:58am
I'm sick to death of this conversation. "them versus us".
danny:
06 Jun 2013 9:32:49am
Me too Caroline. Me too.
"If you prick us, do we not bleed?"
We are all in this together.
For me it's also the short termism that pre-occupies the debate. I'd like to know what the long term solutions are. Can we talk about education as a cornerstone in foreign aid maybe? Can we talk about micro financing? Can we talk about the empowerment of women?
Is this perceived short term "problem" actually just a type I / type II threshold issue?
Is the long term issue actually just global inequality, and if we expect or allow or indeed want inequality to increase... will the problem get worse?
Maybe the real discussion is how to have an infinately growing economy that needs an infinately growing population on a world that is finite?
Trulie:
06 Jun 2013 8:37:42am
Of course we are xenophobic. No one likes change, even though many of our achievers are from overseas. We have seen plenty of cross cultural clashes in our growing communities and now there is the added threat of terrorism in our midst. The people who migrate here bring their prejudices and politics with them and it is often unpleasant to the established residents. You only have to look to Britain and France to see the downside.
However, humanity and decency make it necessary to share the world's burden and welcome people to our shores. We still have far fewer asylum seekers arriving here than in European countries.
As a group asylum seekers may be daunting, but as individuals they have needs which we can reach out and support. And as individuals they have the potential to contribute well to our society and economy.
After all, how many of us came to Australia from other lands either our own generation or previous ones?
2Much:
06 Jun 2013 10:13:07am
We say stop the boats. We say go right ahead and bring in people from refugee camps, same races, same religions, same countries that the boat people originate from. You call us xenophobes. You are the liars. You are the haters. You are the dog-whistlers.
We advocate control of our borders, not just open slather. It's a foolish immigration policy. We have a stated annual quota. Every time a queue jumper lobs, a genuine refugee who has been assessed misses out.
Trulie:
06 Jun 2013 1:38:53pm
You will be pleased with Abbott's latest thought bubble then. He has just pledged to"stop the boats" in his first term.
I would regard it as a stain on my character and intelligence to vote for this man - And this is a dangerous policy - But obviously you will go right ahead. Enjoy
By the way, I do disapproval; I do not do "hatred".
Aussie Sutra:
06 Jun 2013 10:40:23am
We may have fewer asylum seekers ARRIVING in Australia, but we give official asylum and permanent residency to more than all of Europe combined.
Trulie:
06 Jun 2013 1:39:45pm
Government policy since time immemorial.
rabbie:
06 Jun 2013 8:37:51am
John Howard precipitated a race to the bottom on hate, fear and prejudice. Tony Abbott and those around him are his ignoble successors.
It is a terrible shame that they have been able to use hate, fear and prejudice to define and control the political climate on refugees.
danny:
06 Jun 2013 9:50:41am
Just watch Rabbie.
The first spin cycle that Abbot will deliver when he gets to the lodge will be one that attempts to sooth. It will be "calm down" or "relax" or as Howard put it that everyone should feel "relaxed and comfortable".
Every new government does this.
And every opposition promotes fear.
When an opposition is obviously on top, the fear can seem an imense thing.
mike:
06 Jun 2013 12:53:56pm
Promoting fear - you mean like the end of the world is nigh due to climate change?
danny:
06 Jun 2013 4:27:18pm
Yep very good point Mike.
If I am correct then when labor and greens are in opposition you will see the rhetoric on this ramped up considerably.
Conversely you will see the stuff around boats drop off (that is unless Labor wants to do a bit of revenge)
What we really need is an objective measure of fear, both as it is perceived and as it pertains to column inches. How could you measure the strength of an adjective anyway? Food for thought.
Oh and the "end of the world is nigh" thing, geologically climate change won't matter much, whereas sociologically it probably will ...but that's off topic.
Fred:
06 Jun 2013 9:52:56am
And the current government's policies?
Pop:
06 Jun 2013 12:37:58pm
You don't need policy in fairy land Fred. everything is just tickerty boo.
Tom1:
06 Jun 2013 1:00:01pm
Fred: Five words of naivety! It is easy to forget that this issue started when John Howard saw the chance to exploit peoples' fear of boat arrivals with his speech "We will decide etc.etc, really indicating that unless you are and Anglo,white church goer, you will not be welcome. Prior to that was his "Children overboard" deception accompanied by his accomplice. Peter Reith producing photos which proved nothing of the sort.
Howard won an election, and obviously Labor was outraged that such vile tactics were used. Their reaction was obvious
and they correctly, at that time,reversed Howard"s decisions.
This has admittedly backfired on Labor, through circumstances no one could have envisioned. The matter could have been greatly improved with bipartisanship. But that is not forthcoming from the opposition who are on a good thing and will stick to it, no ,matter what you or I think.
The Govt's policy is fairly shambolic, but probably in line with what most Australians want in view of the fear of boat people Morrison et al have instilled in them.
Fred:
06 Jun 2013 7:56:23pm
Tom1 - not sure what you mean by naivety. It's a fairly straight forward statement, more cynical than naive. You go on to use the good old, "yeah but they did it first" argument - that's naivety on your part. The current government had a chance to stick to it's plan and blinked. Also, as far as I'm concerned, the so called "Malaysian Solution" (a vile name for it) was an appalling policy, and now we have a real mess including, dare I say it, more deaths at sea. It's well past time for our government to "person up" and take responsibility for their policies. It's too easy to blame the past and the opposition for all problems. Neither the past LNP government nor the present opposition are clean on this, but they are not in power and haven't been since 2007.
Bean Counter:
06 Jun 2013 10:55:15am
rabbie. From my point of view, people with enough dough to spend tens of thousands on flights followed by boat trips, are NOT generally in any great danger.
A family of four from Afghanistan would be forking out at least $70,000 in cash to get here. That's about 70 years annual wage in Afghanistan, which is like say, $3.5 Million here.
Next step once this is recognised, is to say "They are safe...and well-funded...whilst awaiting proper processing in Indonesia etc . They must wait".
The only half-reasonable argument I've ever heard against this is that some do-gooders (actually mean-wellers, since they do no "good") people fear the Asylum Seekers may be in some sort of danger STILL, in Indo or Malaysia, but since the ALP actually WANTS to send people from Xmas Island to Malaysia, then this seems not to be a worry at all. End of debate, eh?
rabbie:
06 Jun 2013 1:19:23pm
Bean Counter, it must feel good to be so certain and have everything so neatly worked out.
I have always found life to be a bit more complex than counting beans.
Tom1:
06 Jun 2013 2:11:09pm
Bean Counter: Putting aside your wild, ill informed guessing on how much a family of four would pay to get here by boat, your next shattering expose seems to be a knowledge of the indescribable fate that would await them in Malaysia.
I am sure that the Australian Govt. received some assurances on that point. If these assurances were not kept, they could always then be brought to Australia. But of course the Opposition does not want a solution that will work, because the status quo is too valuable an asset to see them in Government. If that happens Malaysia may not be a bad option. To save your next comment No I have not booked my ticket.
Fred:
06 Jun 2013 8:27:13pm
Tom1: Oh, the naivety of your whole argument on the Malaysian arrangement (I hate term "Malaysian Solution" - reminds me of WWII). OK, I see where you're coming from now. You obviously think the Malaysian arrangement was good, well thought through and humane. I don't agree with you on that one. Also, you may try being less snide and more mature in your comments - always starting off with a snipe.
danny:
06 Jun 2013 4:32:00pm
And what about the LONG TERM causes and possible solutions.
What about wealth inequality, which according to the queue jumper theory, is the main cause of irregular migration.
What about conflict, role of the UN, or any number of other issues.
Tristan:
06 Jun 2013 11:52:19am
It's a really scary prospect of having Scott Morrison as our Immigration Minister. Scott Morrison who told his Liberal cabinet that they should capitalise on community fears about Muslim immigrants.
Scott Morrison was previously the NSW State Liberal Campaign Director. I wonder if he had any input in the Jackie Kelly western Sydney electorate of Lindsay, fake flyer affair.
Damien Mantach was the State Liberal Director responsible for authorising the grubby, unbranded red, white and black Liberal flyers in Bendigo, Vic this year, and was also embroiled in the Victorian Liberal's tapes scandal.
Then there's Cory Bernardi, advocate of the "Ban the Burqua" mural, Dutch politcian Geert Wilders, and who has a pathological hatred of the ABC.
Cory Bernardi declined to remove hateful and racist comments posted to his website.
Bernardi created a conservative activist group CANdo to picket the Fairfax headquarters in Sydney in 2012, to protest and demand that his mate Gina Rinehart and Fairfax's largest shareholder be given seats on the board.
andy:
06 Jun 2013 8:37:55am
so it is racist to want orderly migration to our country?
we are hate-filled to want to bring in refugees that the UN has assessed and processed rather than people who conveniently lose their passports and transit countries where they aren't persecuted?
Poll Hereford:
06 Jun 2013 9:49:06am
It is racist to be selective in the understanding of 'illegal immigrants' as asylum seekers rather than tourist visa overstayers, most of whom are white, and from the UK or Ireland.
OverIt:
06 Jun 2013 10:26:34am
Tourist visa overstayers arrive in the country with a valid visa, which means their ID has been checked and verified. While here, they cannot claim welfare benefits and must support themselves. That's two differences between them and asylum seekers so far.
The overwhelming majority of visa overstayers keep a low profile, don't cost the Australian taxpayer any money and leave the country voluntarily within a couple of months of their visa expiry. Hardly illegal immigrants.
Oh, and everybody from the UK and Ireland is not white.
Aussie Sutra:
06 Jun 2013 10:43:36am
How silly. We don't have a problem with visa overstayers at ANYTHING like we have a problem with boat people who are coming for an expected LIFETIME. While there are more visa overstayers at any given time, currently, than there are boat people arriving (currently, but nor for long) about 90% of those visa overstayers only overstay for two weeks or less. They do NOT expect permanent residency, they do NOT expect citizenship, they do NOT expect to live off Centrelink for the rest of their lives, and they do NOT expect to alter our culture to become a mirror of a disaster elsewhere.
Tristan:
06 Jun 2013 3:43:08pm
Hello?
Overstayers do want permanent residency. That's why some accept exploitative pay and conditions by employers, and undercut local wages and conditions.
Overseas economies aren't exactly doing great, you know.
Jack66:
06 Jun 2013 10:59:29am
and vice versa.
Steve:
06 Jun 2013 11:08:49am
Tourist visa overstayers end up returning to their own countries, and the ones from Ireland and the UK can support themselves, not needing welfare payemnts.
Just a couple of points of difference.
el-viejo:
06 Jun 2013 11:13:10am
PH: "rather than tourist visa overstayers, most of whom are white, and from the UK or Ireland""
... effectively all of whom go home eventually; the number of illegal immigrants in the community, as counted and published by theimmigration authorities, has been stable for the last two decades or so, ie. about as many visa overstayers leave as arrive...
Had the visa overstayers, from wherever, been employing visa overstay as a strategy to enter and stay permanently, that number would have been trending up by now, wouldn't it?
Do you get the main difference between visa overstayers and asylum seekers now?
whogoesthere:
06 Jun 2013 12:34:48pm
Nah, it's about money, most things are. The perception (rightly or wrongly) is that asylum seekers will be dependent on Govt hand outs for a long, long, long time.
Overstaying tourists don't survive on welfare.
antipostmodernism:
06 Jun 2013 12:44:13pm
The differences are:
1) They entered the country legally.
2) They will eventually go home
3) We know who they are because they do not destroy their documents or lie from go to woe.
4) They are not security threats.
5) They will not be a life long expense of countless welfare programs.
6) There is no problem with social cohesion.
mike:
06 Jun 2013 12:47:32pm
Their identities and backgrounds are not in question as they did not destroy their identity documents. A bit of a difference there.
Marko:
06 Jun 2013 1:28:29pm
And who come to this country with identification unlike immigrants by boat. Funny you didn't mention that.
OverIt:
06 Jun 2013 9:49:59am
I always see the term 'racist' is the desperate accusation of those who don't actually have any understanding of why some (most?) of us don't want people being accepted into Australia just because they can afford to bypass several countries and pay sums to people smugglers that the average Australian wouldn't have lying around.
That we would quite happily welcome those of the SAME race/s if we selected those from the UN camps in greatest need, and most likely to able to assimilate, doesn't merit a mention from these writers. No, we must be 'racists' - oh, and another old favourite, 'haters' or 'hate-filled'.
And have you noticed, NOBODY will nominate an upper figure of how many boat arrivals we can actually take? They just keep on bleating about 'racists', but surely even they recognise that we cannot support unlimited numbers of boat arrivals? That also doesn't seem to merit a mention.
With the troubles being experienced in Europe by large numbers of asylum seekers who refuse to integrate, yet quite happily accept the welfare of their host nation, you would think we would learn from that. The far-right party UKIP is gathering more and more support by the day, from people who have had a gutful of feeling like second class citizens in their own land. Do we really want that here?
But no, there are plenty who just point blank refuse to acknowledge what is happening, or seem to see it as a matter of pride that they vigorously defend any mention of such concerns on the basis that 'they are not racist'.
A year or so ago, those who raised concerned were sneered at on the grounds of what they claim was the relatively small numbers of arrivals. As Blind Freddy could predict, this year's numbers are substantially higher than the same time last year, and next years, if no changes are made, are likely to increase exponentially. The fact that the 'open borders' brigade seems incapable of recognising this scares me.
What we see now, the bleeding hearts will only see when we have a massive problem down the track. And by then it will be much, much harder to fix.
Aussie Sutra:
06 Jun 2013 10:48:16am
As someone who examines trends as a part of their job, I am able to tell you that the numbers trend is growing in a hockey-stick fashion. I stated two years ago that as a rule of thumb, you would see in early 2012 per month, what you saw per year two years earlier. This was true. You would see per month in early 2013 what you saw per year two years earlier. With more than 20,000 arrivals since August, most of which of which have been placed NOT on Manus Island or Nauru, but straight into our COMMUNITIES, and who we know nothing of except that they have total disrespect for our laws, we can expect that, without massive intervention in the next 12 months, we will be seeing over 20,000 arrivals per month. A year later we will see over 100,000 arrivals per month. This is the TREND and the only limiting factor is availability of boats.
Ann:
06 Jun 2013 12:27:56pm
If you don't care what race they are as long as they come in "legally" why aren't you making a big fuss about all the people who illegally come here from first world countries such as Europe and Asia and were never even pretending to be refugees, just tourists and travellers? Is it because they're not poor and uneducated? Because they can "contribute" to society quicker, and they're "like us"? Unless you complain about "boat people" only as a small sub-group of illegal immigrants, I put it to you that you are racist.
frangipani:
06 Jun 2013 2:22:08pm
@Ann: the number of people who overstay their visas is around 50,000 all up, not per year. I daresay the number of people who arrived on visas this year or last and have overstayed is well below the number of asylum seekers.
Further, the overstayers generally work illegally for a while, then go home. They don't get medicare or welfare or any other benefits. Yes, they're a problem, but they don't generally end up in detention and they don't clog up the court system. Ultimately, they cost us some lost tax dollars and that's about it.
And since most overstayers are in fact Asian, I don't see how you can argue that they are more "like us" than Afghans or Iranians.
OverIt:
06 Jun 2013 2:52:06pm
Ann, you clearly have no idea of the real meaning of 'racism'. Racists wouldn't support anybody from a different race coming here, either as a refugee or otherwise. Did you not read where I said that most of us are QUITE HAPPY to welcome those from UN camps from the SAME RACE as those who currently pay people smugglers?
And just how many first world citizens (who you are assuming all to be white!) come here illegally? None have arrived by boat, and planes won't allow you to board without a valid visa.
Try to keep up.
el-viejo:
06 Jun 2013 3:24:12pm
How many times does it need to be repeated what the key differences are between boat arrivals and visa overstayers arriving by air:
Visa overstayers arriving by air:
1) Enter the country legally.
2) Their identity is known up front (actually before they arrive).
3) Eventually go home (numbers of illegals have been stable).
4) Do not destroy their ID documents or lie as to their identity.
5) Are not security threats (vetted before arrival).
6) Are not welfare recipients (ineligible to apply).
7) Do not require long term support (housing, education etc.)
8) Cause no known problems with social cohesion.
lazarus:
06 Jun 2013 12:46:57pm
Go vote for Pauline and the One Notioners again this election.
If you can't accept refugees as refugees because of the way they arrive. Don't hear you complaining about white South Africans and Zimbabweans ho flew to Australia and claimed to be refugees. Surely they were worse, obviously well off and countery shopping.
Pauly:
06 Jun 2013 1:42:27pm
Typical conservative bollocks. Demonising people they don't agree with to justify their prejudice.
People that disagree "just point blank refuse to acknowledge what is happening, or seem to see it as a matter of pride that they vigorously defend any mention of such concerns on the basis that 'they are not racist'.". In order to avoid needing to face your prejudices you make comments suggesting that those that disagree just don't see the reality of the situation, or call them the "'open borders' brigade" suggesting that the alternative to your racism is to allow all and sunder come and live here.
The number of asylum seekers coming by boat is still, and will always be insignificant. It is an incredibly dangerous journey that would only be taken as a last resort.
If you are truly just concerned about the number of people in Australia that haven't followed a preferred channel then where is the uproar about European backpackers that overstay their visas? There are more of them than there are "boat people".
danny:
06 Jun 2013 9:56:13am
No, it's rascist to ignore the long term issus and focus only on perceived short term actions.
What are the long-term issues?
Well, no-one is talking about them, and that's the problem.
But guess what, and to your point, it doesn't really involve race at all.
You have a go. You tell us here what the long term issues are?
But in order to have this conversation, everyone needs to chill a bit.
Tristan:
06 Jun 2013 11:57:07am
Overit,
As one person asked on Joe Hildebrande's ABC2 "Dumb Drunk and Racist", "How do you assimilate into that?"
She was speaking about protesters belonging to the Australia First party bearing banners "F*** Off, We're Full" and "We Grew Here, You Flew Here".
The Australia First Party were also goading the crowd at the Cronulla riots, and the party appeals to the same type of people who listen to Alan Jones.
OverIt:
06 Jun 2013 11:37:52pm
Tristan, why are you picking an extreme group and asking how newcomers could be expected to fit into that? I'm talking about ordinary people, going about their daily lives and going to their ordinary jobs, if they're lucky enough to have them.
The fact that so few asylum seekers, once released into the community, make so little effort to learn the language doesn't indicate that they want to mix with anybody other than those from the same background. Don't you think it would be better to accept people who want to be part of our existing community, than those who prefer to live entirely within their own, very different, culture?
Jade:
06 Jun 2013 12:02:48pm
@Overit - actually, the UN has.
Furthermore, many in camps are actually in less need than those who for various reasons, cannot get to a camp. For some, there are no camps due to the extreme danger for aid workers. For others, to identify themselves to authorities might result in their arrest.
People in the camps are "safe". They have food, and protection.
Furthermore, if Australians want an orderly immigration system, they need to first start with the visa overstayers, and those who come on one kind of visa, and violate those conditions to take jobs from Australians.
betty:
06 Jun 2013 2:13:23pm
These people are "safe"?
http://www.msf.org.au/from-the-field/field-news/field-news/article/race-...
I guess that makes Christmas Island a 5 star resort on your rating system.
frangipani:
06 Jun 2013 2:25:35pm
I'm not sure what you think the UN has done, other than identify roughly 800,000 people in the camps that it believes would be suitable for permanent resettlement outside their regions. The receiving countries (Canada, US, Australia, plus a few European countries) together take less than 120,000 a year, so there's a plentiful supply of people awaiting resettlement in the camps or in countries like Pakistan who are already recognised as refugees and whom the UN would love to resettle in countries like this one.
Toluana:
06 Jun 2013 8:38:21am
Thank you Jonathon for articulating so well Australia's shameful dark heart.
Bean Counter:
06 Jun 2013 11:03:30am
That's YOUR shameful dark heart, is it?
Circular:
06 Jun 2013 11:43:54am
Can I suggest Dark Victory by Marr and Wilkinson (2003). An enlightening analysis of the way politics played fast and loose with asylum seekers during the Howard era.
Binboy:
06 Jun 2013 8:38:38am
An excellent article, summing up some ugly, shameful truths about Australia.
For me the worst of it is not that these attitudes exist, nor that they form part of human nature.
It is that when they are displayed and discussed, we seem incapable of admitting it and attempting to learn and grow despite their airing.
Worse, we too often consciously and deliberately choose as our political and social leaders people whose characters are such that they hold these views at their convenience, expediently and shamelessly.
I don't believe the majority of Australians truly think along racist or otherwise small minded and hurtful lines, but when it comes time to cast votes we often choose a person who has a character and reputation of very poor quality.
It's as though we act as the soul depressed, caring for ourselves so little that our electoral actions do little to lift us, to join with our fellows to create a world of peace, prosperity and togetherness.
It's time to look to elect people who will truly lead, to truly act in service of our country, not in service of self interest, or horrendously constricting party lines, or fear mongering stances, expressed without true reflection on the part of the utterer simply to get a vote.
Tombowler:
06 Jun 2013 9:51:48am
Is it in the service of the country to empty our treasury on non-citizens in pursuit of a warm, fuzzy feeling?
Have the courage of your conviction to answer me, how many asylum seekers can we take before we must close our borders?
Binboy:
06 Jun 2013 1:31:48pm
We don't have to empty our treasury.
We ought show compassion and humanity to those who seek the kind of peaceful and prosperous lifestyle we enjoy, but are denied it by a range of circumstances no one should even have to contemplate, let alone endure.
Australia is a vast and underpopulated place. I wouldn't know what sort of number to quote you, but we can readly accommodate a much larger population, over time and with suitable planned infrastructures.
The new arrivals will pay taxes and contribute in more ways to our society than financial.
Put yourself in the shoes of someone seeking asylum. Would you like to be derided or assisted? Feared or taken in?
We have put our paw out for workers in the past and now we celebrate their achievements. We can readily put our hands out again to people who need help.
We all gain immeasurably more than a 'warm, fuzzy feeling' Tombowler, as soon as we put fear aside and aspire - with actions - to the best of ourselves.
When we are swayed by the whispers of our squeaking prejudices and those cynical parasites who nourish them, we forget that we ourselves might one day need some loving understanding from someone else and we diminish ourselves by not trying to treat others as we would want to be treated.
Those are some of the convictions I hold, with confidence and courage.
I despise those snakes who preach the kind of things no child has been taught in any school in this country for many many years. The kind of intolerant selfishness that has no place in our fortunate society should be deprived of platforms and oxygen, but gets a free ride much too often. Too many of us are taken in by it too often.
Tombowler:
06 Jun 2013 2:06:54pm
I disagree with your convictions with equal confidence and courage.
I disagree equally with your suggestion of intellectual censorship and the indoctrination of our children.
OverIt:
07 Jun 2013 12:04:54am
We have approximately 10 million tax payers, Binboy. This number is reducing on a daily basis, due to steady and regular job losses. We have already spent some $8bn on asylum seekers in the last year. Their rate of arrival is increasing each month. Statistics show that over 90% remain on welfare after five years. That's over 90% who DON'T pay taxes, and in fact are supported by those Australians who DO pay taxes.
Taxes spent on supporting providing welfare to asylum seekers are taxes not spent on health care, education and welfare for needy Australian citizens. The greater the number of asylum seekers we support, the less the amount of tax monies available for our own citizens.
NOBODY on this site who cries racist at those who disagree with this has the guts to put a figure on how many asylum seekers THEY think we should support. This year so far, around 25,000 asylum seekers have arrived. If we continue at that rate, that means 50-60,000 this year. Based on the current rate of increase, that would likely mean 100,000 next year and who knows what the year after. The majority of whom we are supporting, and who don't pay tax and will probably never pay tax. Exactly how much do you think that is going to cost us, and exactly where do you think the money is going to come from? And you say we won't be emptying our treasury.
So much easier just to use the tired old racist card than actually have to think about our actual concerns in any depth - or at all!
What's happened in your life that has prejudiced you against your fellow Australians, preferring instead to support those who can afford to travel the world and pay large sums to people smugglers? Why do you place a higher importance on displaying compassion and humanity to the rest of the world, rather than those already here who need help?
"...we forget that we ourselves might one day need some loving understanding from someone else and we diminish ourselves by not trying to treat others as we would want to be treated. "
Quite right. There are increasing numbers of desperate Australians falling on hard time - just ask the Salvos. And we should be helping them first, before advocating saving the world. Why not practice what you preach.
Whatever it is, you need to reassess your priorities.
Binboy:
07 Jun 2013 7:35:35am
I would like to see the 'statistics ' you rely on. You base your argument on these generalised assumptions
I do agree, we have spent too much on asylum seekers lately. But it's a stupid amount because the money has been directed to avoiding our responsibilities with policing and detention instead of integration. We have also spent too much on providing welfare to people who don't need it, to increase the size of their families or to buy a house. Priorities need reassessing.
And the magic number you seek is not supplied because it is impossible to predict, large or small.
I am not using a racist card either. I am using a humanity card, if anything.
And I don't advocate helping anyone group any more than any other group. You seem to have added in those conclusions for yourself.
I might pose a similar question to you... What has happened in your life that you are frightened to help someone in desperate need? Who put you at the top of the pile?
Jayden C:
07 Jun 2013 9:10:18am
If we actually LET them work or contribute, paying welfare or falling tax revenue wouldn't be a problem.
You've inadvertently made an argument for "treat others as you would like to be treated" which I actually agree with strongly. That's why we should treat refugees with compassion and actually let them contribute their skills and expertise to this country. If you ever find yourself needing a helping hand, you'll have far more friends to deliver it!
betty:
06 Jun 2013 2:17:11pm
Give up Tom. For that question to be answered, there must be some sort of a plan - even a draft. There is no plan.
'We' crap on about leaving a nice environment for our children but there is no thought as to how we will do this.
It's not all about the carbon.
Jayden C:
07 Jun 2013 9:04:50am
Jordan - a tiny, landlocked little country in the Middle East - takes somewhere around half a MILLION refugees each year. Australia takes less than 20 thousand. Puts things into perspective a bit, doesn't it? I think we can take a few more just fine...
JohnM:
06 Jun 2013 8:40:32am
This looks like more pimping for ALP policies from Jonathon. "The trickle of boat-borne arrivals does not by any objective international measure constitute a crisis." What a laugh! These arrivals of illegal immigrants have cost the tax payer billions of dollars to process and, because few of them get jobs, the future cost in social security payments in various forms is likely to add billions. That same money could have been directed in something far more useful for Australia, although I must say that Labor's track record tends to argue against that possibility..
Wining Pom:
06 Jun 2013 9:43:53am
Well, if they weren't locked up and were allowed to work, they would pay tax so we could make money from them.
Tombowler:
06 Jun 2013 10:06:59am
How do we know who they are?
Wining Pom, you didn't migrate from the UK in response to the enormous social and financial problems caused by mass-immigration did you? A number of my friends in the Police did so...
Wining Pom:
06 Jun 2013 3:00:30pm
No, we were living in the US but we like it here better.
And I hear about the immigration problems in the UK as I have a couple of racist brothers who go on about it all the time.
Jack66:
06 Jun 2013 10:36:23am
Economics 1.
Create new costs.
Work and pay taxes. That hardly cover the cost.
And this is called "making money".
The Labor road to deficit.
Bean Counter:
06 Jun 2013 11:07:40am
WP. And yet the ALP/unions (and their flunkies) are already moaning about legit "foreign workers" who have serious skills, taking Aussie jobs! Now you reckon these same people would go for tems of thousands of unskilled ones.
No...the answer is not to waste our time treating an "illness" we are endorsing by allowing it to happen, but in preventing it in the first place. Cheers.
Steve:
06 Jun 2013 11:10:27am
Pity if you are an unskilled Australian looking for work then.
But almost all refugee advocates and supporters are not in that situation. They are in jobs and professions that a refugee cannot compete for.
blax5:
06 Jun 2013 11:20:55am
I have seen that debate more than 30 years ago in Germany. Let them work and that was an incentive for more coming, don't let them work and they cost billions. Before 1979, the Shah opponents would come, after 1979 the Khomeini opponents would come - but the Shah opponents did not go back after the Shah was gone. Not sure what they currently do.
If the fear of having Australian laws adapted to Sharia is racism, then call me a racist. But labels and name calling is a pointless exercise.
Wining Pom:
06 Jun 2013 3:02:29pm
'If the fear of having Australian laws adapted to Sharia'
You'e kidding right? You really are afraid that Sharia law is being introduced here?
Lionel:
06 Jun 2013 12:24:34pm
what sort of work would they be doing?
mike:
06 Jun 2013 12:45:27pm
Around 95% are still on the dole after 5 years of being legally able to work in Australia according to Labor's own figures.
OverIt:
06 Jun 2013 2:56:28pm
And around 90% haven't even bothered to learn English, either, also according to government figures. That shows that either they are not capable of learning, or have no interest in doing so. Either way, not good.
John:
06 Jun 2013 4:12:31pm
No, they wouldn't, Pom.
DIAC research has showed that illegal entrants who are allowed into the community:
1) Stay on welfare for more than five years;
2) Decline to merge into Australian society;
3) Do not learn, or require that their children learn, English;
4) Do not send their children to mainstream schools but to schools run by and within religious establishments and
5) Do not seek or hold regular employment.
Tristan:
06 Jun 2013 11:59:43am
Oh John M,
Do remind us how John Howard removed the charitable status of Aid Watch when Aid Watch revealed that the Howard govenment deliberately understated and disguised the amount they spent on detaining asylum seekers on Nauru by classifying that expense as "foreign aid".
OUB :
06 Jun 2013 3:16:04pm
I don't know anything about Aid Watch but you can hardly play an activist role in politics and expect to be funded as a charity.
You must be aware that the Gillard government has diverted foreign aid to fund detention for irregular entrants, bleating that Howard did it too. So why do you try and mislead on the topic? Are you practicing deception for a future role in politics or something?
Wining Pom:
06 Jun 2013 8:43:48am
Spot on Jonathan. Australia is a deeply racist country. So deep in fact that it doesn't even know it.
frangipani:
06 Jun 2013 9:17:45am
There is certainly racism in Australia, but I wouldn't call it a racist country - there have been fewer major problems here than in a number of European countries, and the level of general racism is lower in my experience than in quite a few other parts of the world as well. That's not to say we don't need to address racism, but it is to say that the perspective that this is the most racist place in the western world is badly skewed.
Caroline:
06 Jun 2013 9:21:14am
You need to travel the world. Come back and then comment.
Swan likes to compare Australia against the rest of the world.
Try comparing racism in Australia to racism in the rest of the world.
You will find racism is in every country. Australia is hardly at the top of the list of racist countries. If it were then why do so many people want to come and live here.
Wining Pom:
06 Jun 2013 10:55:26am
I've lived in a few different countries and you're right, we are not top of the list of racism. Indeed, all countries have racist tendencies, but racism here towards the first Australians and Asians is very high. And in a lot of cases it's not meant to be hurtful, it's just a lack of decency, no understanding.
SA:
06 Jun 2013 12:02:32pm
Caroline, you are 100% right,
the world is not without race barriers, between countries certainly, but in my travels and exploits I have noticed many instances of indigenous racism, kenya - for example has four major groups that simmer their irritation for each other often. Same in Rwanda, Middle East Suny vs Shiite, etc etc.
Reminds me - one time I was in China ( 1984 it was). With a bunch of in country colleagues (Han) traversing a small village by a large lake. I heard the villagers mumbling the word Gwaizer (sp? foreign devil if you like). I mentioned this to my associates, thinking they were targeting me. Well, I was very surprised when I was informed that it wasn't just me that was targeted, suspicion is endemic from village to village, Provence to Provence and it goes on.
Jilleene:
06 Jun 2013 9:51:43am
Yep, you have to admire England.
They dont muck around in showing it.
Whats worse - hidden racism and an uneasy existence.
Or blatant racism and major violence.
Of those 2 - I'd probably vote for the first - if it never bubbles over.
OverIt:
06 Jun 2013 10:32:31am
So, what other races / nationalities accept people who rock up at their borders without ID, provide them with accommodation, food, medical and dental treatment, free internet and free smokes, then release them into the community and provide them with free money?
Oh that's right, it's only the racist, predominantly white nations!
OverIt:
06 Jun 2013 10:33:53am
So, what other races / nationalities accept people who rock up at their borders without ID, provide them with accommodation, food, medical and dental treatment, free internet and free smokes, then release them into the community and provide them with free money?
Oh that's right, it's only the racist, predominantly white nations!
Vulcan:
06 Jun 2013 11:34:52am
I had a long discussion with a young Pakistani Muslim army officer the other day who was here studying. His comments were enlightening - after we had discussed two of the taboo topics, religion and politics, he said what had amazed him about Australia was how open, free and accepting he had found people to be.
Oh, yeah - we are all racists aren't we. Next time try asking someone who comes here from overseas without a barrow to push...and then you might actually get the truth.
CP:
06 Jun 2013 12:03:56pm
Can you tell me what they look like? The racists? Let me guess: they're white, don't live in your trendy suburb, have no culture and like sport. I once got a South Asian colleague of mine to describe racists (they were white, of course). He didn't get the irony.
I'm so sick of this "Australia is racist" meme. If you're going to have the coversation, be honest: you mean white people are racist. Just not you.
Joel:
06 Jun 2013 8:43:52am
Just a tad out of touch I feel...Peoples issues with immigrants etc etc is not colour or ethnicity, it is culture. People don't get upset about a fact of nature, but about social constructs that they see as threatening, unworkable, ignorant or backward. For example, an issue with boat people is not so much their coulor/ nation of origin, but the baggage they can bring with them in terms of attitudes/ beliefs etc that are counter to ours, and that they may take jobs. The reaction to the ugly protest in Sydney was not about the race of the people there, but about the religion and culture(s) they represented. The NT Intervention wasn't because they were aboriginal per se, but because of nasty stuff that was going on.
lazarus:
06 Jun 2013 1:07:03pm
That's why the Italian, Greeks, Hungarians, Czechs and other non-english speaking refugees & immigrants after the war were wogs spicks and dago's because we aren't racist.
OUB :
06 Jun 2013 3:45:01pm
Lazarus are you suggesting there has been no change in attitudes since the sixties? Do you have a problem with living in the present?
Ralph Wiggum:
06 Jun 2013 1:16:58pm
Nice sentiment Joel, but I think you're out of touch with people who've actually experienced racism. I was born here, speak with a strong Australian accent and consider my culture to be 100% Australian all the way. Yet because I look Chinese, people still feel fit to tell me to "fuck off back to China".
Make no mistake about it, racism is a by-product of superficial judgements based on ignorance and misunderstanding. And that includes the colour of people's skin.
Andrew:
06 Jun 2013 5:04:48pm
This is the first sensible comment I have read for a long time. There are certain groups which do not respect our values or way of life. I'm not suggesting that everyone should like footy and barbies; I don't even care if they don't "integrate". They can keep their culture but what is the point of letting them in if they are completely incompatible with and seek to undermine Western culture?
On the flip side, I have met many friendly and highly educated people who would have liked to stay in Australia but were not allowed because due to some technicality they didn't get enough points for their permanent residency application. The clever country? I think not.
Peter of Melbourne:
06 Jun 2013 8:46:52am
Whilst people such as yourself might be fine with a failure in Australia's border protection by current useless mob it seems the majority of Australians are not impressed. Country shoppers should never be able to choose where they will relocate to and Australia should be deciding who enters our borders.
Most of these country shoppers are already safe in transit countries so their asylum claims are negated, its just not a life on welfare at the Australian taxpayers expense - too bad. Those such as Tamil Tigers and their supporters made their own beds and can damn well live/die with the consequences.
It seems to be the only opinion which matters these days is that espoused by tiny minorities such as bleeding hearts or homosexuals. Whilst they may have the ear of the Labor party at the moment, come election day Labors chicken are coming home to roost for neglecting the majority over the minority.
The only problem with that result is we end up with another group of political hacks who will be putting their own interest above the publics once again. Vicious cycle.
Wining Pom:
06 Jun 2013 10:04:08am
'Country shoppers'
Well, here's a good example of what Jonathan was on about.
And then this; 'bleeding hearts or homosexuals'
What indeed have homosexuals got to do with asylum seekers?
John:
06 Jun 2013 4:16:11pm
Nothing.
But it has got a great deal to do with minority groups attempting to force the majority to change to accede to their wishes.
Tristan:
06 Jun 2013 12:03:23pm
Yet Australia was happy to fast track approvals for migrants from certain countries - "the beautiful Balkans" while deporting others - the Chinese and Pacific Islanders during the White Australia era which started during federation year 1901 and finally ended during the Whitlam era.
Peter of Melbourne:
06 Jun 2013 2:02:13pm
The white Australia policy is long gone as it should be. That was a prime example of racism, what we have today is a failed policy of multiculturalism rather than trying to successfully integrate migrants into our existing culture.
I am damn proud to be Australian and of what this country has achieved since its founding only 250 years ago. Those who immigrate here need to leave their baggage behind as it is not our problem and should not be made our problem.
Tristan:
06 Jun 2013 6:52:00pm
And many of us were lucky to migrate here prior to 1991 before the introduction of mandatory offshore, indefinite detention.
Deadboofy:
06 Jun 2013 12:06:01pm
The first and most serious failure of border protection was by the original indigenous inhabitants of this country.
If they had towed back the boats, towed back the first fleet of 'country shoppers'?.
If the original inhabitants had enforced the wishes of the majority rather than letting that 'country shopping minority' have their way, life would be very different.
Lies:
06 Jun 2013 12:23:03pm
Peter of Melbourne,
Please don't tell me you believe Tony Abbott's line, that he and the LNP will be able to "stop the boats".
Tony Abbott is lying to you to get your vote. And Tony Abbott knows it.
Poll Hereford:
06 Jun 2013 12:47:31pm
You seem so enraged about minorities who don't have the ear of the Labor Party that you have conflated your hatred of the Labor Party with them.
Meanwhile, back in the real world.
RC:
06 Jun 2013 8:47:33am
The "big" question - "where does Racism come from?" Wow!!
After 150 years of the illegalisation of "slavery" based on the Constitutional premise from the 1215 Magna Carta "that all are born equal" isn't this a strange question, for today?
Then (1215) the peasants rebelled against the autocracy, forcing it's figurehead, the king, to sign this magnificent document of human rights for the commoners.
For more than 60 years the UN Charter on Human Rights has put this concept before us all as World Citizens.
So why has it raised its ugly head again, now?
Is it fear from autocratic range holders of vast tracts of land?
Or, is it from poor workers afraid to lose their jobs?
This abhorent concept seems to thrive amongst academics who are unable to realise that the "race" "homo sapiens" describes all humans, not just them, as they incessantly talk of peoples from different lands as if they are different races.
Is now the only time that they can see themselves as worthy to Society, as "we know best" theoreticians?
Woe betide us if again we give them the credence they so desparately seek in this manner, from their promotion of this false concept.
As for the other 99%, to us, that is, "all men are equal".
frangipani:
06 Jun 2013 9:26:32am
I think you need to do a bit more reading. The phrase "all men are created equal" is from the US Constitution, not Magna Carta. And Magna Carta itself was a product of a revolt by barons, not peasants. Serfdom continued for several hundred years after Magna Carta, and slavery for almost 700 years. Magna Carta had nothing to do with racism or its eradication.
Racism has many roots, but fear and ignorance would certainly be among them.
RC:
06 Jun 2013 1:07:10pm
Where do you think the American Constitution got its values from? The Magna Carta of course.When in history did an autocrat fight for anything except through others.
The peasants were the victors that day.
Within the next century english peasantry was dead and buried only for Capitalism to rear it's ugly head in the course of which the new "working class" was born, as rural workers moved to new towns as well as old, swelling London to over a million within the next century.
As it happens the aristocrats tried to bury the Magna Carta within days of the usurper king John signing it.
He was assassinated shortly afterwards by a coup of some of his closest barons - a touch of "et tu Brute".
Shortly afterwards its prominence was reinstated by "royal decree".
Even to this day the current Commonwealth monarch has deigned to sign it again within the Charter of the Commonwealth, which acedemia obviously have not read.
It's time for the sheriifs of their baronial shires within our shores to ban racism too, by honouring either regal Charter.
Racism is a toy of ignorant academics to their shame.
frangipani:
06 Jun 2013 2:56:57pm
I say again, Magna Carta was a product of the aristocracy challenging the authority of the King over them. The peasants were not the victors; the barons were (and, to a lesser extent, the freemen, who got access to the courts). Magna Carta did nothing for the peasants.
Most certainly, serfdom, the feudal system, whatever you want to call it, wasn't "dead and buried" within the next century. It was another 170 years before the Wat Tyler Rebellion (and the Black Death) began the end of the feudal system in the UK. Magna Carta had nothing to do with it.
As for John, he wasn't an usurper, he was the legitimate heir of his childless elder brother. And, so far as I know, he died of disease.
Voltaire:
06 Jun 2013 8:47:45am
Where does one start to respond to such a dark view of the Australian political and social soul?
To characterise criticism of the failure of this government to manage the unregulated arrival of boats as "racism" and "xeonophobia" is hysterical nonsense.
Australia for many years has had a controlled generous humanitarian refugee system. The vast majority of Australians support such a system. To equate frustration and despair at an uncontrolled situation of continual boat arrivals leading to billions of dollars of additional expenditure and a failure to control our borders is absurd.
One cannot help but conclude that if the election on September 14 does not go the way the author would like, then all he can do is to blame the people for their supposed ignorance, racism and xenophobia, as opposed to recognising the frustration of the people with the gross failures of the existing government.
If one wants to convince one's fellow citizens that they are misguided, abusing them is not the ideal starting point...
It reminds me of that Wizard of Id cartoon where Sir Rodney says to the King: "The peasants are revolting". The King replies: "Well, get them to wash!"
lazarus:
06 Jun 2013 1:13:42pm
The refugees will still come after September 14. It is amazing here because it is all about the boats. Why aren't white South Africans and Zimbabweans demonised, they normally fly/flew here on a tourist visa and claimed to be refugees. Surely they should have gone to Namibia or Angola instead of country shopping. This is all about the colour of the skin and religion.
Peter of Melbourne:
06 Jun 2013 3:07:24pm
Sri Lankan/Afghani cultures/values are completely different to Western cultures, just like Namibian and Angolan cultures/values are completely different to those of white South African and Zimbabweans who do share a cultural heritage with Europeans
This whole issue has nothing to do with skin colour as bleeding hearts like to portray, it does have everything to do with the failed multiculturalism experiment. It is time to bury that dead policy and move to a policy of full integration.
Who cares what colour someones skin is, genetically they are pretty much the same as you and me? The fact of the matter is that people who wish to immigrate to this country MUST put the core values of this country ahead of any ethnic/religious values from the culture which they are fleeing from. Just leave the damn baggage behind and start a new life as an Australian, not as an (insert culture here)/Australian
frangipani:
06 Jun 2013 7:15:02pm
Would you care to provide the figures for white South Africans who have flown here and claimed asylum? So far as I know, virtually all the Saffers here migrated under the skilled migrant program. As for Zimbabweans, the numbers are in the low hundreds - not a patch on Afghanistan, Iran or Sri Lanka.
David:
06 Jun 2013 8:50:31am
What a load of crap.
You don't have to be racist to believe that people who have been stuck in refugee camps for 5 or 10 years in Malaysia, Indonesia or Eastern Africa deserve a chance at entry before those who hop a plane from home to Indonesia and for a wad of cash jump on a boat. Home to Australia in a couple of weeks!
You don't have to be racist to think that there must a limit (however large) on the number of refugees we take and to expect supporters of the boat people to nominate what this number might be and to tell us what they will do with the people on the boat that comes after this number is reached.
And you don't have to be white anglo-saxon to be worried that the next group of migrants will put you out of a job. The most recent migrants (to any country) are always the ones most concerned about the next lot, hence the concern in Western Sydney.
And you can be all of these things and still be offended at abuse thrown at people simply because of their race or religion. Perhaps this article says more about Mr Green than about any of the people he purports to write about.
barsnax:
06 Jun 2013 9:51:34am
After reading this post it just shows the ignorance and fear that some people have on this issue. It saddens me that there are people in our country that think like this poster.
Abbott and Morrison have done their work of misinformation well.
OverIt:
06 Jun 2013 12:53:47pm
What misinformation Barsnax? What did David say that was incorrect?
The current crop DO fly to Indonesia before shelling out however many thousands of dollars the current going rate is to get to Australia WITHOUT the passports they used to get to Indonesia.
Are you saying there should be no limit on how many of the millions of people who want to come here we should take? Nobody of the 'you're a racist, let everybody in' brigade has yet had the balls to nominate an upper limit. Or do you think we should let in everybody who wants to come. Provided, that is, that they are 'fleeing persecution'. No whiteys.
Fear of not having a job? Quite possible. With a steadily rising unemployment rate, do you think it right that people rocking up on the doorstop should be given a job before an existing Australian citizen of ANY race!
I've actually never heard Abbott and Morrison speak on this subject - that's not to say they haven't, just that I haven't heard it. So all who think this way are 'misinformed', only those who think like you do can withstand the barrage of misinformation that is spread by the press - apparently.
Give me strength.
barsnax:
06 Jun 2013 3:04:01pm
My goodness. What a disgusting post. Calling desperate human beings "a crop".
How do we go from 10,000 fleeing men, women and children to " how many of the millions of people who want to come here we should take?"
Like I said before Tony Abbott and Scott Morrison have done their work well when I read horrible posts like this.
OverIt:
06 Jun 2013 7:45:56pm
Crop - meaning 'group' in this particular context, nothing offensive about that.
Where does the figure 10,000 come from? So far this year we have received 25,000+ asylum seekers on our shores, and there are plenty more waiting for transport in Indonesia. We know there are several million people in poorer countries who would love the chance to come to Australia, some genuine refugees, some just wanting a better life. There was nothing complicated about my question.
I notice that, yet again, nobody is prepared to give an answer other than ''oh but it's only a few".
Like I said before, I haven't listened to Abbott and Morrison on this topic. Repeating your silly statement again doesn't make it any more true this time than last. Just because you don't have the ability to foresee the likely consequences of the track we're on, doesn't mean that none of us do.
If you choose to live with your head in the sand, all well and good, but those of us who don't, don't need to be told what to think. Alien though it may sound, we can assess what's going on all by ourselves, and observe the example of Europe.
That Guy:
06 Jun 2013 9:47:31pm
barsnax,
Looking again and again at Davids post I note he is merely putting forth discussion points. The idea of a rational debate based on economics, infrastructure and the like in relation to our quota of refugees and the other points he put forth should surely all be able to be discussed rationally without name calling and people making pre-emptive strike use of epithets like racism or, in the case of your post, ignorance.
I find it ironic that those that would seem to claim some sort of moral or intellectual elevation are so keen to shut down the concept of a civil discussion of the sorts of points David raised. That you don't contribute one iota to any of the points he made is noteworthy.
Instead of silly comments about political figures maybe you could give us your views on the points of discussion David raised.
Elvis:
06 Jun 2013 10:05:03am
David - yes, I completely agree that the people who have been in camps for 5 to 10 years should get priority - but this comes back to the myth of a "queue".
There isn't one and the evidence for that is the simple fact that these people HAVE been in those camps for 5 to 10 years. If there was a queue then there would be an orderly movement of people in a reasonable time-frame and asylum seekers would not feel they have no choice but to jump on a boat - or a plane for that matter.
Problem is neither side of politics seems to have any desire to set up a "queue" which comes back to the heart of this article. Neither side will because such a solution would be political suicide.
dinohtar:
06 Jun 2013 1:15:32pm
it depends on you definition of a queue, and where you are looking.
certainly when Gillard was pushing for her malaysian solution, she referred to sending people to Malaysia, and they would go to the back of the queue. It was expected that it would take them 10-15 years to get resettled based on how many are in the camp, and how many are being accepted for resettlement.
Labor's recent policy for a no advantage policy also has the notion of a queue. The ones get to Oz will be treated any faster as somone who was in a camp.
the issue is that some country, like Iraq dont have a queue. So to protect themselves and their family, they leave their homeland
John:
06 Jun 2013 2:02:26pm
All incorrect, Elvis.
Yes, there is a queue and it is 13,750 long. If you are No 1 on that list and Australia gets 13,750 illegal entrants, you miss out. And you very likely will in 2013, because we have already received about 10,000 illegal entrants this calendar year. There has been some discussion about increasing that figure to 20,000, by Abbott anyway, but I don't know if it has been, or ever will be, enacted.
The illegal entrants via a people smuggler's boat have pretty well never been in a refugee camp, let alone for 5-10 years. Inevitably they come voluntarily from Afghanistan, Pakistan, Iraq, Yemen and similar countries, and they have the financial ability to move through several countries before entering Australia. In some cases, as with the Hazara for example, they come from a country where they have been established and lived for many years, sometimes for generations.
They can't get on a plane without a visa, as they can on a people smuggler boat, and if they do get on a plane with one and destroy it en route they are immediately repatriated on the same airline to the point of embarkation.
betty:
06 Jun 2013 2:24:00pm
Again, those with money are able to get results quicker...and 'we' are encouraging that it seems.
Wining Pom:
06 Jun 2013 10:08:02am
'next group of migrants will put you out of a job.'
But I thought they were country shoppers and were going to spend their lives on the dole.
Jade:
06 Jun 2013 12:12:12pm
And you don't have to be white anglo-saxon to be worried that the next group of migrants will put you out of a job. The most recent migrants (to any country) are always the ones most concerned about the next lot, hence the concern in Western Sydney.
But it's funny that there isn't concern about white anglo-saxon migrants taking our jobs, though they do so in great numbers.
lazarus:
06 Jun 2013 1:17:11pm
What about white "refugees", should they have gone or go to a camp in Kenya if they are Zimbabwean and wait instead of flying to Australia on a tourist visa and claiming asylum?
frangipani:
06 Jun 2013 7:16:52pm
What? All 200 of them? And who knows how many of them were actually white?
Aussie Sutra:
06 Jun 2013 2:27:25pm
This was really well stated David. Notice that you will never, never, never, never, NEVER get a "NUMBER" from the pro-open border-high population growth mob.
Harquebus:
06 Jun 2013 3:23:45pm
10 years and still nothing is done about the causes. How long do you think we can ignore the tyrants and oppressive regimes and who are they anyway?
Jack66:
06 Jun 2013 8:53:35am
The shame of racism to me is not so political or public driven.
It is now a media darling.
Pollies have come to learn it will get front page coverage without question.
The recent football saga a case in point - was blown out of all proportion
by a media frenzy.
Michael:
06 Jun 2013 8:57:09am
Yeah there are votes in raceism just like there are votes in everything else but he quote you have from Gillard above is not about race, it's about unionism.
Labor has always argued that they are for the average worker and the fear they have of fly in workers is legitimate.
You ever worked a mine? Miners really don't care what colour your skin is, half of you look the same after a couple of hours work anyway. They don't care if you are asian or african born. They care about their families and see that bringing people in from overseas is a risk to that family. If you are an aussie and live in the community you are more then welcome (please note being an aussie does not mean white it means one of us. The pleabs that work the mines and live here)
anti-postmodernist:
06 Jun 2013 8:58:12am
Jonathon,
1) You are engaging in the myth that only whites are racist. You bang on endlessly about the evils of whites and demonise them, which makes you a notorious racist by definition.
2) Many of the Western Sydney seats are majority NESB, and they are especially offended by asylum rorting and will punish Labor accordingly.
3)The 'imagined invading mass of others' is a physical reality. It is not what you laughingly call a 'trickle' of boat-borne arrivals'.
4) How are we 'cold hearted' to asylum seekers? They turn up with no document, tell a likely story and stay, closely followed by their second cousins, and get public housing long before people born here. We are too generous; its why they come here, skipping over other countries. We also apply a very generous interpretation of the Refugee Convention.
5) The issue is not a 'fabrication created for purely political purpose'. Most Australians are not stupid or being manipulated by Abbott or Murdoch. We simply see invasion, gaming, and weakness.
6) Imposed apartheid of the NT intervention'? The nerve! The intervention was necessary to counter the ill effects of the leftist imposed racial segregation of aborigines. Treat people on need and not race, under one law, and these problems will improve.
danny:
06 Jun 2013 10:17:30am
And here's my points
1. Perception for some people is that it seems like a big problem, for others, it just does not rate. Should I pretend that my subjective perception is veridical truth, and by this, should you or anyone else do the same? I'd like to see more data please.
2. "we simply see invasion, gaming and weakness" yep, what about the Greeks or Italians, or going back further, the Irish or Catholics? Are they actually a problem, or have they help create the fabrik of Aus.
3. But really if you see "invasion", what does an original inhabitant see? Relativity is a bitch, isn't it?
4. The Machiavellians in parliament do not actually care. Machiavellians are well adapted to give the impression of caring, but really they do this only so they can manipulate (the definition of "Machiavellian" here is as used in personality psychology where there is a cold conceptual understanding of empathy but without the hot affective component attached to it.)
5. In short term thinking there is a Type I / Type II error problem at play (false positives and false negatives). This is part of what is called threshold or Criterion analysis where it is accepted that you can only minimise Type I and Type II errors, not eradicate them completely. In simple terms there will always be those who are not refugees who get accepted as refugees, just as there will always be those who are refugees who never get to Aus. The point is to minimise both as much as possible and err on the side of, well for me, compassion, but it may be different for you.
6. We are a wealthy country. Other countries are not, and so an analogy that's useful is osmosis, where water can travel through a semi-permeable membrane but salt cannot, often resulting in higher pressure where the salt concentration is highest. Here then people are the water, our national borders are semi-permeable, and salt is the wealth of our nation. In biology, if you want to address a problem caused by osmosis, you can either 1. remove the membrane (not advisable) or you can 2. reduce the salt within the membrane (not desired) or you can 3. increase the salt outside the membrane. Hmmmm, so would you like to have a conversation now about foreign aid, education of women, the function of the U.N., and micro financing?
7. Why is no-one talking about the LONG TERM issues of infinitely growing inequality that stems from an infinitely growing economy based on an infinitely growing population on a world that is finite? Or is this too much of an existential threat to your current consciousness?
barsnax:
06 Jun 2013 12:57:01pm
So we have Non English Speaking Background people in suburbs of Western Sydney that don't want to allow "boat people" to come into Australia.
You make me sick.
lazarus:
06 Jun 2013 1:21:14pm
Leftist imposed racial segregation of Aborigines. When did these lefties manage this and how come Ming the Merciless in his 26 year reign as PM or Gorton, McMahon, Fraser or Howard was unable to stop it from happening
Tricky Dicky:
06 Jun 2013 8:59:54am
And standby for all those who commence their post with "I'm not a racist, but......'
Voltaire:
06 Jun 2013 9:42:24am
I am not a racist AND I passionately believe that the vast majority of Australians are not racist...no BUTS...
Ann:
06 Jun 2013 12:32:49pm
At least you own up to your ignorance.
lazarus:
06 Jun 2013 1:25:30pm
You just don't like darkies arriving by boats, but are quite happy with white people arriving by air and claiming asylum.
danny:
06 Jun 2013 10:21:24am
I'm not a racist but I am someone who thinks inequality is the real issue here. This is a third variable problem where it seems race is the issue, but the real underlying cause is inequality, that people from poor countries are not white is kinda irrelevent because, well, their poor.
Actaully the issues are complex and that needs to be stated above all else.
Chrism:
06 Jun 2013 11:18:41am
Sorry Tricky Dicky. 83 Posts so far and not one starts with "I'm not a racist, but......"
By the way, isn't calling Australians 'racist' racist? The pc crowd must be racist.
Aaron:
06 Jun 2013 12:09:32pm
Is that it Tricky?
Is that all you can add to this discussion?
Well here's my bit.
I am white.
As a baby my mother raised me with the help of aboriginal women on remote stations in the NT. These women became life long family friends. The first meat I ate was goanna.
My late Godfather is of Chinese and Aboriginal decent. A finest man and horseman second to none.
I have spent time living in the bush and living in the cities. I have MATES of all colours - the colour of a persons skin does not matter to me, it never has. All my life I have lived and worked with people other than white.
But what really shits me about this whole repetitious debate is the smug remarks and sanctimonious attitudes of those towards others simply because they don't understand or, god forbid, they have a different opinion.
Racism is born of fear and fear is born of the unknown.
What I don't understand is how some of the 'enlightened' liberally throw insults at the vast majority who are for the most part struggling to understand something they are not familiar with. How does screaming racist at people you don't know achieve anything?
To me it smacks of the cowardice to anything other than make remarks that are morally self serving rather than helpful.
Contribute.
Peter of Melbourne:
06 Jun 2013 1:11:30pm
I couldn't give a damn what race, colour or creed someone is, as long as they leave their baggage behind and fully integrate into Australian society. The multiculturalism farce is contradictory to that very simple goal, which all other nations have, with the exception of the UK which is now finding itself in all kinds of trouble because of the failed multiculturalism experiment.
France, which takes in many migrants from around the world, only prints official forms in French and does not provide Government funded linguists in every language under the sun like Australia does. Which begs the question, do we now declare France an even more racist country/culture than Australia?
Maybe it is time for the authors of these pieces to get off the Racism bandwagon and begin to use the correct terminology in their articles.
kenj:
06 Jun 2013 9:00:14am
Where are where we are because of the politics of hate pursued by the hard Right, most of it imported from the US. Here's how it works. Joe Blow citizen has grievances, most of them based around their job or family. Some are reasonable and realistic expectations of government and some aren't. Previously politicians would outline policies to address these concerns. Now they ooze empathy backed up by policy motherhood statements and an invitation to demonize the other side. "I worry about your job too. That's the only thing that matters here. When we're in government we'll fix the jobs and sack the current crew who have lied/cheated/stolen from you. We are outraged and we want you to be outraged too. Here's a poster calling our PM a witch and a bitch. Stand beside it with me and we'll have our photo taken."
That's what we have come to. Unfortunately, having empowered mindless hatred those same Right wing politicians have nowhere to go when it turns on them. Witness the Republican Party support for the Right wing Tea Party movement. When the Republicans forced massive concessions from the Obama government in order to pass a budget and keep the bureaucracy functioning the Tea Party bucketed the idea, preferring instead to see the machinery of government shut down entirely.
Time to stop a halt to the political "I feel you pain" song sheet. It dumbs down the national debate, falsely scapegoats decent politicians and brings out the worst in people. Of course, that won't happen. The tactic has proved itself to the Aussie hard Right. And the dumb Aussie working public are going to vote in a Party committed to their economic destruction, all because they wanted someone to hold their hand and make them "feel good". Dumb as rocks.
frangipani:
06 Jun 2013 9:30:41am
Yes, the Right has used the xenophobia card. But then, so has the Left. It's not the Right that's talking about 457 holders threatening "our" jobs. It wasn't the Right that introduced mandatory detention, and it isn't the Right that's running the current detention regime. And it isn't the Right that thinks the average Aussie is "dumb as rocks" and needs to be told by his betters who to vote for.
kenj:
06 Jun 2013 10:10:57am
The Left politicians aren't producing placards calling the PM a "witch" and taking happy photos next to it. The Left aren't calling for the PM to be tied up in a calico bag and thrown into the ocean.
The Right aren't talking about 457 Visas because the Right is dominated by the Murdoch media and the business groups who love 457 visas. And in what sense is it racist or inflammatory to denounce 457 visas. I worked in a factory with 15 Fijian 457 visa laborers brought in under false pretenses as "technicians". They didn't do any technical work but they got the full time work while scores of Aussies came and went as short term casuals kicked around by an employer who was never going to offer them a full time job. Hell, they might have wanted to join a union or expected training of some kind.
Aussies are as dumb as rocks as a matter of fact. They can vote how they like, I'm not stopping them. But if they think standing next to a placard calling our PM a "witch" is going to get them their next wage increase under a Liberal government then they really are dumb as a box of rocks.
frangipani:
06 Jun 2013 3:01:38pm
Maybe you should actually read what some of the left are saying. They make the "witch" slogan seem positively childlike in comparison.
And if Aussies think that government creates jobs, then you're right, they are dumb as rocks. But they're not. Most Aussies recognise that businesses create jobs, and that there has to be a balance between the rights of the business owner and the rights of the workers. Push the businesses too hard, make conditions to onerous, and the jobs disappear. That's a thought that hasn't made it through to the hard Left yet.
As for 457 holders, give me a break. It's racist dog whistling and we both know it.
kenj:
06 Jun 2013 7:46:03pm
Racist dog whistle, my eye. I worked in a factory alongside 457 visa workers who were brought in under false pretenses and who were keeping Aussies out of a job. I know it, I saw it for myself.
Ann:
06 Jun 2013 12:34:16pm
Pretty sure the Right does think the average Aussie is dumb as rocks. All politicians do. Maybe if you read up about their private conversations you would know this.
frangipani:
06 Jun 2013 7:21:16pm
The Right may indeed think the average Aussie is dumb. The Left certainly does, with its contempt of bogan Australia. Those of us in the middle say, a curse on both your houses.
Voltaire:
06 Jun 2013 9:41:22am
ahhh yes, it is only the right of politics that plays to the darker forces of people's personality...I had forgotten that politics used to be such a pure unemotional game where politicians did not appeal to voters grievances and it was simply an unemotional assessment of alternative policies...
kenj:
06 Jun 2013 10:14:11am
Politicians have always played to voter grievances only now they're telling people to hate their political opponents. That's dangerous for society long term.
RoxyR:
06 Jun 2013 9:00:25am
Jonathon,
I think one of the reasons there is so much concern over the boat people is that they are not true refugees. True they have fled persecution in their homeland, but that homeland is not Indonesia.
These refugees have managed to leave the borders of the countries where they feared for their lives, but now in the comparative safety of countries in Asia are now deciding where they would like to live. That plus the fact they seem to have large sums of money to pay to get on the boats and in some cases destroy their passports before they reach our shores irks quite a few Australians I believe.
Callie:
06 Jun 2013 9:55:49am
In law a refugee is a person outside their home country who is unable to return because of a well-founded fear of persecution for reasons of race, nationality, politics, ethnicity or membership of a particular social group.
Your reference to "true refugees" is simply incorrect.
They are not safe in eg Indonesia or Malaysia. Not allowed to work, kids can't go to school, no or restricted access to healthcare. High risk of being jailed as not citizens of those countries.
They may have a few thousand dollars (sold car, home) or borrowed from friends, rellies but this money soon runs out if they can't work.
And above all, the fear of being forcibly returned to the country from which they fled hangs over them.
So no, they are not safe.
danny:
06 Jun 2013 10:57:01am
Well done Roxy.
I typically sit on the other side of this debate, but you have calmly and rationally made a very valid point.
It could be that the transit though less wealthy countries is just that, a transit, and they were always intending to get to Australia, but your point is taken that relative safety is not what they were after, but rather that of safety + economic potential. Always keep in mind that some do go to the US, Canada, Europe etc.
In fact if you go to data.un.org you can get the raw data for yourself. It's a good resource, but also fraught with problems and easy to make mistakes, so I apologize if I have made any inadevertantly.
In 2011, 169 countries had refugees who totaled 10,404,804 people (not necessarily resettled). Over 10% of refugees were in Pakistan (1,702,700), with another 886,468 in Iran (both with borders to Afganistan). It's probably more now with the conflict in Syria causeing greater numbers in Jordan and other countries.
Australia had 23,434 refugees from 120 countries.
To your point, at http://www.unhcr.org/pages/4a16b1676.html it is indicated that only 1% of the 10.5 million refugees in 2012 are submitted by the UNHCR for resettlement, with "The United States is the world's top resettlement country, while Australia, Canada and the Nordic countries also provide a sizeable number of places annually."
It seems that only the wealthy countries are providing resettlement, although this may be slowly changing.
It's a global problem and it needs a global solution, but everyone is too afraid to touch it, and only the fear mongers are getting any leverage with it (to Jonathan's point).
So all that said, what are you insights as to the LONG TERM solutions.
lazarus:
06 Jun 2013 1:27:56pm
In most cases their relatives pay or they promise to pay once they are here. If a white person arrives by plane and claims to be a refugee should they be sent back to where they came from?
Harquebus:
06 Jun 2013 3:20:25pm
Who is causing this fear and why isn't anything being done about it?
toe knee:
06 Jun 2013 9:02:26am
Brilliant piece, Jonathan.
But surely you understand that, in the nouveau Howardian anti-political-correctness political correctness of the times, speaking truth like this is nothing more than a leftist conspiracy. The barrage of I'm-not-racist-I-just-hate-anything-that's-different-from-me-or-that-I-don't-understand bile and vitriol that will very soon colour these columns, will in its own perverse way prove exactly your point.
And the whingers' collective solution will be to vote for an irresponsible dog-whistling economic illiterate whose bankrollers want to eliminate the platform that allows you to speak this truth.
Thank you for speaking the truth while you still can.
Voltaire:
06 Jun 2013 9:38:53am
Ahhh...take heart Jonathan, it appears there will always be an appreciative audience for your writings!
Who in their comments has said anything to the effect that they are not racist but they hate anything different from me? No one. You construct a straw man and then proceed to put him to the torch.
No doubt there are racists in our society and in every other society around the globe. There are those who would prejudice against people on the basis of their ethnicity, skin colour, religion, age, gender or sexual preference. However, I am firmly of the view that they are a minority in our society and will continue to be be so. That is one of the reasons why so many people want to come and live here.
People should take care prior to casting the racist epithet.
genfie:
06 Jun 2013 11:11:23am
"Who in their comments has said anything to the effect that they are not racist but they hate anything different from me? "
Pretty much everybody in the ones I read. Apart from the ones that say that racism is totes just what people do and so their xenophobic rantings are completely valid. Also, yellow peril and reds under the bed or something.
But actually that's not the point. The point of a dog whistle is that it gets people polarised over an issue that's *not actually important* as a way to distract them from the things that are. Refugees are a miniscule population, totally marginalised and ultimately they are, on a macro level, unimportant to our nation's fortunes.
Illegal immigrants are far more numerous, far more likely to be criminals and far less easy to identify. Also they're not as ethnically distinct so they're less easy to target rhetorically. That's why targetting refugees is so useful because our policies toward them don't actually matter from a national perspective.
The ALP and LNP policies on boat people are essentially the same so they've created a pointless rhetorical battleground where they can race each other to the bottom with little to no impact on anything that's going to affect the majority of the Australian population. That's what a dog whistle is.
The fact that this actually works is why you have to ask yourself about our systemic racism and racialism. Because if we weren't racist, *this tactic wouldn't work*. We'd see the debate was illogical and insist we move on to more important and substantial things.
RobP:
06 Jun 2013 12:15:20pm
I agree - most of the time, the term racist is lazily used as a euphemism for things like boorishness, nastiness, boofheadedness, etc etc etc.
Walking down near Etihad stadium in Melbourne recently on a Saturday night, there was a group of about seven or eight young blokes, half-drunk and carrying on like pork chops walking to the ground. As a Asian-looking girl walked past them, one of them exuberantly came out with the pretty offensive "Ching, Ching" right in her face. Likely not racism, but probably just as negative to the recipient. Is that type of behaviour really all that much better than racism? And could we as a society do without it too. Of course we could.
So, to the extent that the call of "racism" is meant to catch all similar sub-classes of bad behaviour, the word might not be all that bad for operational purposes.
Tom Kennedy:
06 Jun 2013 9:03:05am
While I completely agree with the thrust of your article, I wonder whether the general idea of slanting the job market to favor Australians first isn't more along the lines of practicality than jingoism. In fact, I'm inclined to believe we should load the market in favor of Indigenous Aussies first, then the rest of us (being inclusive of LGBTI), then overseas workers. I just think this aspect of the debate is somewhat different from the xenophobic distrust of "foreigners" that you are talking about, which is very real and present.
danny:
06 Jun 2013 9:07:48am
Thanks Jonathan
This will probably be the last time I visit blogs as they are getting worse.
To me it seems that the debate is gettign worse, and it's probably due to the lack of physicality. You can't see the other people, you don't pick up on their expressions. All this is tending debate further down the spiral of vindictivness and hatred.
Would that it were possible to have a calm and rational debate online, but I am not sure it can be done. This is feeding from and into the subject of your post. It seems that without 'calm' per-se, the debate shifts more and more to the right, almost as if the quick to action orientation that comes from the sympathetic fight and flight response is the place where conservatism thrives. But it is also where being able to take in new information, consider new concepts is deprecated.
We are making decisions based on gut reaction alone... and it's seems to be getting worse.
Marko:
06 Jun 2013 2:30:51pm
So any one disagreeing with you is not participating in calm and rational debate.
The only lack of calm and rationality i am seeing in this BLOG are from those who choose to see racism at every opportunity.
susan rattray:
06 Jun 2013 9:08:54am
Great and honest article. My family is racist to the bone and their friens and friends friends. Anyone who has an email account (I bet) has had racist and sexist emails sent to them.
Australia has become a small and embittered country and you cannot blame the politicians for this. Even our immigrant population is racist.
Doc:
06 Jun 2013 9:09:30am
Ah JG, to quote Transtromer:
'It is dark and silent. The city has come nearer
tonight. With its windows turned off. Houses have come.
They stand packed and waiting very near,
a mob of people with blank gaces.'
Darkwood:
06 Jun 2013 9:09:41am
This is the sad truth of the Australian psyche - we are a nation of immigrants who cannot come to terms with the fact that our claim to our own land is founded in the legal lie that it was empty of people and culture prior to their arrival; a nation whose most sacred ground is a battleground in Turkey. Hence we are perpetually shaped by our own barely-concealed xenophobia.
It IS shameful - we need to admit the real nature of our immigrant, multi-cultural society, we need to celebrate the proud heritage of the fact that ours is the homeland of the world's oldest surviving culture, and we need to accept our place as part of Asia, a uniquely Euro-Asian nation accepting of all. I won't live to see it but I hope my children will.
Machiavelli's Cat:
06 Jun 2013 10:44:09am
Terra Nullius wasn't really established until 1832, some 44 years after the colony at Sydney Cove was established.
Marko:
06 Jun 2013 2:33:49pm
Most cultures and nations on this planet have been built on the falling of other cultures and nations. Get over it.
the other Gordon:
06 Jun 2013 9:16:07am
This is another self-flagellating article about Australian racism. As a nation Australia is one of the least racist in the world. I spent my whole working life travelling the world and there is racism everywhere, often violent and fatal to whole communities.
Ann:
06 Jun 2013 12:36:54pm
And so because everyone is doing it that makes it OK for us? "Listen I only beat my wife a little, not like my neighbour, his wife is always covered in bruises. So my wife should be glad she just gets a slap now and then"
Jayden C:
07 Jun 2013 9:13:25am
I've been to the midwest and east coast of America and those places are WAY less racist than Australia. At least two decades ahead of us.
margot:
06 Jun 2013 9:16:56am
This is a stark, confronting landscape that Jonathon Greene
describes. More worrying is just how extensive might this vein of division be. Traditionally we have looked to schools to promote policies which aim at social inclusion and cohesion. We have liked to think that they have been singularly successful even though some regard teaching as a subversive activity blessed by a Union that brooks no interference in its programs or activities. One only has to read The Daily Mail (UK) to see a plethora of stories which continually run (daily) on the breakdown of civility, law and order and social norms.
Maybe it is time for political systems in this country to engage more with sociologists and social scientists to ensure that at least there is more effort made to engage with all groups, especially those who see themselves as marginalized.
More informed commentary on these matters might also be useful.
Lee of Brisbane:
06 Jun 2013 9:18:48am
All I can say is that its about bloody time "our" ABC called out those that pedal this line for what they actually are. To simply say you are not a racist or xenophobic does not mean you are not a racist or xenophobic, your actions are what actually matters. Every time serious questions are asked of the LNP about their policies or lack of, they go to their "playbook of confected crisis" on refugee's and border protection. There is no crisis and more journo's should call them out on it.
It is a "race to the bottom" and the LNP are winning hands down. Says a lot about how misinformed and let down by the MSM we actually are.
barsnax:
06 Jun 2013 9:21:39am
The Labor party has played the politics of this wrong from day one. Now that it faces annihilation at the next election, it should scrap this horrible policy of discrimination and division. Leave that garbage to Abbott and Morrison.
Go back to core Labor values and become compassionate to the people who come here looking for our help. In the process you may win back some of the Labor heartland you've lost. Not everyone lives in Western Sydney.
RealReformForAustralia:
06 Jun 2013 9:22:21am
It is a fear of competence and courage that is at the heart of the matter. Big and bigger government has been entrained into the psyche of many: Why doesn't the Govmn't do sum'nt about it".
In the past growing a population has been seen as essential to success. The skill and courage that "boat people" represent is anitthetical to the mentality that wants big government and socialist promises of security.
Australia, since about 1914 has been adopting larger government and less respect for individual endeavour. We need to go back to the pioneering mind-set of reward for risk and courageous action not the aversion to risk embodied by the Socialist mind-set which is being inculcated with every infantilising comment by the like of the socialists and right wing statists.
Happiness is not a guaranteed right. The opportunity to pursue one's own happiness without damaging other's pursuit of happiness is a fundamental right. But that right is not a guarantee.
Embracing risk and accepting the uncertainties of life courageously, without resorting to institutionalised theft is the way to go.
andy:
06 Jun 2013 9:26:03am
how does patriotism and having a preference as to the direction your country is going in fit into this? It feels like racism and bigotry are the "sit down and shut up" labels that get used when people express preferences different to those held by progressives.
ThatFlemingGent:
06 Jun 2013 12:01:09pm
It has gone well past "patriotism" into insular nationalism and xenophobia and the politicians are playing on it, some more overtly than others.
The "direction of our country" concerns you speak of has become nothing more than a smokescreen for an "There are people coming/are here different to me that I don't understand and don't like" - we've always had immigrants from all over the world, including refugees and asylum seekers, this "direction" hasn't changed - we are merely dealing with external situations almost exclusively beyond our direct control (which is why this "stop the boats" dogwhistle is such a cynical exercise in deliberate populist deceit)
The wilful ignorance of this situation, the reality of what's really happening and the blatant resulting misinformation and double-standards lead to these charges of racism/xenophobia (as most often facts are given over to emotion, refer back to the "stop the boats" meme).
Nor is it the exclusive province of the progressives to stifle debate as you infer - the ability of the more regressive "conservative" element to condescendingly shout down those holding a view counter to their own, to deliberately lie about the "censors" claiming they "can't call asylum seekers illegal" (they are not, in fact) and smear / slander public figures in print (including Mr Green and the ABC, a frequent target of the shock-jocks) is legendary.
genfie:
06 Jun 2013 1:39:18pm
Well said. It's a bit rich for a viewpoint supported by 98% of the media to be seen as a minority "truth" censored by the "politically correct".
Ann:
06 Jun 2013 12:38:03pm
Patriotism is the last refuge of the scoundrel.
OverIt:
07 Jun 2013 12:15:28am
And 'racism' is the desperate call of those who cannot actually present a real argument.
Racism is NOT the reason most of us have concerns about our current (lack of) border protection. Why not actually listen?
gerard oosterman:
06 Jun 2013 9:26:08am
You give back what was given to you.
This is what I feel is at the core of Australia's main culture. Back decades ago there were riots at migrant camps at Bonnegilla with the army being called in to suppress it. When my parents arrived from Holland in 1956, we were called reffos and put into Nissen huts. We were expected to flick off the maggots from the lamb chops.
Now we still see bullets light up the night skies as refugees at Christmas Island or Nauru are burning buildings or jumping from roofs.
It still goes on and the only change is the churning around of nationalities.
It is indeed the Australian way of treating foreigners, and as always there are votes in it. Last night an Egytian man in detention was called a 'terrorist', even though no proof has been furnished except some vague charge from Egypt.
Even so, we are cowering under our doonahs fully expecting hordes of 'foreigners' to invade us, climb over our colour bond fences and rape our women.
The danger is always the 'foreigner'.
You Forget:
06 Jun 2013 1:42:52pm
gerard,
I was critical of George Bush for not sending the US army in to New Orleans assist after Hurricane Katrina in 2005. Unlike John Howard who sent the Australian Army to assist so successfully into Innisfail in 2006 after cyclone Larry.
Now I'm not so sure I can be critical of George Bush for not sending in the US Army into a largely African American community. I think it is a case of he is damned now because he didn't but if he did send in the US Army back in 2005 he would now be damned because he did.
Charles:
06 Jun 2013 9:26:54am
Jonathon if you ever wondered how religions get a start then you have the answer in your own words. All this tosh about the (implied) collective guilt of human beings is historically the best way to get one (religion) started, and because of the ignoble cause you have espoused (accusing everyone else of racism), you are living proof of why religion is such a questionable spiritual exercise.
The reality is we aren't racist, and why anyone wouldn't want to stop the flood the Centrelink-seekers heading our way is nothing more than normal behaviour.
Perhaps what you need to do is to get out in the world with the rest of us, rather than living in the leftoid echo chamber that seems to be your current place of residence, and experience some life at the grass roots.
Otherwise your lengthy and tedious tirades against the rest of us is just another example of a section in society (Left/Progressives) just proving why they are unworthy of being part of the community.
gosolarandpickupyourrubbish:
06 Jun 2013 12:29:54pm
Hi Charles
Funny, I always understood that racism, sexism, ageism... amounted to the sad practice of thinking that a particular group were all alike; eg all .........can't drive, all ..... are good at maths, all ....... are any good for is sports, all ..... smell.
Even though you claim "The reality is we aren't racist,..." I think you're continuing the ...ism tradition by your assertion "...the flood the Centrelink-seekers heading our way..." ie all ("the flood") heading our way are "Centrelink-seekers".
I hope you understand the danger of that word "all" when it is used to describe a group of people. It leads to preconceived ideas about them ie you've judged them without knowing them.
Your last sentence (poor grammar aside) is a fine example of this point.
A shame really
Charles:
06 Jun 2013 2:52:46pm
So I am assuming I can now add pedantry to the existing host of less than desirable traits the Left/Progressives frequently exhibit?
Michael of Perth:
06 Jun 2013 9:27:26am
"The Great Australian shame"
The Great Australian Shock is that there are people in ivory towers who do not seem to understand the community they live in.
Jonathan, mate, racism is the reality of every country on the planet.
Honestly do you live in some kind of gated housing estate?
Rather than the usual hand wringing lefty sentiments perhaps you could harden up and realise that's what Australia is like and even all the new arrivals bring their racism with them, then teach it to their kids who continue to hate everyone around them.
I can see where this is going of course, you're alluding tot he next election being based on racism of several strands, probably the Constitutional racist mention that one race is more important than others .. yes that will help sort things out, let's make some people "Royalty" as Tracee moaned yesterday.
Then there is the problem the community is demanding be solved and that is the unwelcome arrivals by boat .. face up to it, we as a community, not as individuals, don't like it and blame Labor for this current stuff up. It's not actually racism, it's just galloping mismanagement we dislike.
But to wind up, if you think the days of bemoaning racism in Australians is a good place to go, you're living in the past. We're more mature than 5 years ago when pinatas were the rage to express you feelings and we understand and accept our racism
you need to as well
Have a nice day, if you can, without finding fault with every Australian you come across
Ann:
06 Jun 2013 12:40:16pm
You sound like my younger sister, who is a completely self-absorbed, mindless twit, and whenever she is reminded of cruel things she has done in the past, simply says "That was then, I'm more mature now." Yet the behaviours don't stop and nor does the cry over the years of "I'm more mature now."
gosolarandpickupyourrubbish:
06 Jun 2013 1:09:36pm
Hi Michael
"...racism is the reality of every country...". Perhaps.
Littering is also a reality in many countries of the world (including ours) as are rape, dangerous driving, fraud and child pornography. Reality makes none of these bad things right or acceptable.
Speaking as an individual (unlike yourself "...we as a community,...") I will not "understand and accept our racism" because judging all of a group (race) based on a preconception (ie racism) is the wrong thing to do.
Which is why I take exception to your "...all the new arrivals bring their racism with them, then teach it to their kids who continue to hate everyone around them." The wrongness here is not only in the accusation you make, but in making it about "all the new arrivals". This is the ...ism that is fundamentally bad. I implore you to stop this wrong practice in the future.
Daisy May:
06 Jun 2013 9:28:35am
"So where does it come from, this simultaneous sense of shame and license over racism in this country?"
26th January, 2013.
"It is a proud people that you are joining. We had inauspicious beginnings. The first lot of Australians were chosen by the finest judges in England, not always for good reasons, and from those inauspicious beginnings, we have become a rich, a free and a fair society, which has contributed so much to the wider world in good times and in not so good times"
This address to a group of people taking Australian citizenship... this year... is indicative of the 'White' Australia mentality which is ingrained in many Australians, and particularly those who claim a direct ascendancy from British forbears.
It fosters and nurtures a sense of white supremacy, and disregards not only the "First Australians".. it also disregards the wonderful melting pot of nationalities and cultures that is Australia today.
The person who made this speech has made it appear a criminal act for the displaced, the stateless, the persecuted... the other... to seek asylum in this country.
He uses his position to promote fear,xenophobia and religious bigotry to garner support for his own political ends... as did his predecessor.. as did the founder of his party... Robert Menzies.
Where does it come from? It comes from those who would 'Lead' us... and from those who mindlessly follow.
Tombowler:
06 Jun 2013 10:32:39am
It wouldn't be the 'Drum' if Daisy May didn't put forward her boilerplate submission that 'Perceived or actual problem X is the fault of the Liberal Party.'
Answer me some questions, Ms May, and please simply answer them rather than deflecting them or resorting to a straw man.
1. Do you agree that the primary responsibility of the government of a sovereign nation state is to it's own citizens and the advancement of their interests? I
2. What number of annual boat arrivals would justify attempts to slow/stop said arrivals?
3. What number of total arrivals of those without means would be a sufficient economic burden to justify restricting the intake of the poor?
4. Do you believe that Australian's have a collective right to determine who is able to enter the country and in what circumstances via the democratic process or do you believe that the right to entry is better outsourced to the world at large?
Let's avoid pithy political motherhood statements and emotive nonsense and try to answer these questions with a degree of relevance and reference only to fact.
Daisy May:
06 Jun 2013 2:32:43pm
Tb: As usual you have missed the point.... This debate is not about asylum seekers/refugees/ Indigenous Australians, Indians, Asians, those from the Middle East or from the Pacific Islands....
This whole hideous argument is either about the colour of their skin or their religion or both.
If these people were white and christian they would be welcomed with open hearts.... and minds.
ThatFlemingGent:
06 Jun 2013 5:16:58pm
Tombowler as a consistent shill for the Liberal Party's talking points you have a hell of a hide to go and call out other people for supposedly engaging in behaviours you indulge in yourself?
Rather than answer the nonsensical and leading questions you've put forward; I ask this:
Do those objecting to legal asylum seekers and refugees actually understand (factually, not just partisan talking points) the breadth of the asylum situation and reasons for calls for international cooperation, our ethical and legal obligations as members of the UN and signatories to their conventions in regard to asylum seekers and the percentage of claims found to be perfectly legitimate and accepted?
Many among the LNP support base and people even more extreme than that (whom they've convinced to support them to great effect) seem to have a problem understanding these points or raising objections that aren't based on misinformation or outright myth.
(Free hints: "stop the boats" will not work, never has - the situation is not ours to control; we are bound ethically and legally not to refoule those seeking asylum or place them in detention; over nine in ten asylum claims are found to be legitimate)
justmeagain:
06 Jun 2013 9:29:11am
Jonathan, that was a long winded way of anecdotally restating the truism that the people get the politicians (and politics) the deserve - correct though you be.
Harquebus:
06 Jun 2013 3:07:12pm
This time, politicians have got the people that they deserve and they will pay for it. Tony's popularity will deservedly nosedive soon after he is elected.
Wombat:
06 Jun 2013 9:29:22am
Jonathan how many many refugees (including asylum seekers) should Australia take? Is that a "racist" question?
The whole question of immigration is constantly confused by equating refugees with asylum seekers with immigrants. Australia's immigration rate is around 230,000 a year, the refugee "quota" that_isn't_a_quota has been increased to 20,000 a year from 13,500 to stop people taking dangerous sea voyages in which 1% have drowned (even one person is too many) and the number of asylum seekers has grown from 3,000 a year three or four years ago to 20,000. The UNHCR has somewhere over 20 million refugees on its books, which represents an unknown fraction of the actual number. So how many do we take? The first 10 million? Anyone and everyone who shows up wanting a better life until Australia becomes no better than where they fled from?
Ann:
06 Jun 2013 12:41:23pm
Oh even 1 person drowning is too many! I don't care if they live in a hut by the side of the road in Indonesia as long as I don't have to see them drown! I'm sure they feel the same way.
Marilyn:
06 Jun 2013 3:00:23pm
Grow up Ann. 20,000 kids a day die of starvation and you no more care about that or see that than you see people drown.
300 Australians drown every year, what are you doing about that?
Perhaps if Australia didn't break the law and sent out search parties before people drowned they wouldn't drown.
OverIt:
06 Jun 2013 3:16:22pm
So, are you able to offer an answer to Wombat's (and many others on this site, including minea) question : How many asylum seekers can we accept?
Not holding my breath for an answer.
John:
06 Jun 2013 9:29:30am
I think you will find Johnathon, the point here is that although on the very surface these days the politically correct view is laid on thick, the real views of people have not changed.
What this really amounts to is that the only time peoples "real views" and feeling can be expressed is when they are voting anonymously at an election, this is why the tactic you are speaking of works so well in the political arena.
Freedom of speech has been wiped out in this area, people feel as though they cannot have their say without being branded, so all you do is drive it underground and this actually makes it worse.
I think the problem with the whole debate is that some groups actually believe you can change the views of people that are really quite innate.
Is it not a very pompous and condescending idea that we should try to impose a change of thinking in those who do not agree with us? And as already stated, you don't change their minds, you simply drive it underground with all the associated bad sentiment and stifling of any real debate that comes along with it.
To resolve any issue you need both parties to come to the table, in essence both need to be able to discuss their thinking without the worry of judgement, particularly in the form of what can only be described as evil "moral condescension".
One of the main things standing in the way of any meaningful dialogue is the insistence that peoples fears are baseless.........................That just shows a complete and utter disregard for someones thoughts and feelings, is it any wonder they are ripe for the picking when one of our political leaders starts to beat the drum!
Rob:
06 Jun 2013 9:29:50am
Australia has a large number of economic refugees headed it's way. This if fine if we want cheap labour for corporations but we will soon be saying goodbye to our highly subsidised way of life. Medical Education and Welfare services are already struggling and soon we will have the US policy of user pays and the working poor will be the group that suffers.
We are living in a dream if we think we can pay for this rapid expansion when the mining boom goes, then again we can increase taxes...
Helvi:
06 Jun 2013 9:30:35am
Excellent post, Jonathan.
I found the racist comments by the thirteen year old and by Eddie ugly, and many agreed. Yet I have been puzzled for long time by the hateful posts on the Drum, people expressing their fear and revulsion towards asylum seekers, calling them rapists, thieves and of course: terrorists.
The same people who shout: sack Eddie, also join the chorus: turn the boats back.
Australia is a racist country, people have an island mentality, they fear the foreign, the new , the progressive.
The anti racism is paper thin, the racism entrenched.
mike:
06 Jun 2013 11:49:14am
What makes you equate "foreign" with "progressive"? Australia is vastly more progressive than any of the countries boatpeople are coming from, and more than most countries on this planet. And I've never seen asylum seekers characterised as "rapists" or "thieves" or "terrorists" in any of these debates - so where is that claim coming from?? Your post drips with nonsense.
JaneThomas:
06 Jun 2013 12:07:29pm
And many of the comments here just verify what Jonathon states is true. Than you to all those who contributed their helpful evidence.
DeepFritz:
06 Jun 2013 9:33:50am
We don't yet have what is seen in England - schools with no "white" children, where the schools are Ghettoised accordingly. We are getting close to that at my old school in terms of non-anglo descent, but the school is one of the most elite in the country as it is wealthy Chinese, Indian and Sri-Lankan migrants who are moving in the area. However, given the market forces seperating the elite from the poor at a greater rate than ever before, we shall see what we see in England soon enough, I am sure. That shall make fear and demonisation of the other all the more easy.
Mike:
06 Jun 2013 11:20:32am
Why would the colour of your skin matter? We're all humans.
Richo:
06 Jun 2013 9:34:02am
"The trickle of boat-borne arrivals does not by any objective international measure constitute a crisis."
30,000 arrivals is a trickle is it? The detention system is at breaking point, our border security is stretched to the point that boats have made it to the mainland without being intercepted.
We have an Egyptian on an Interpol red notice being housed practically in a motel (but don't worry he hasn't committed a crime in Aus WTF???).
But yes how dare anyone label it a crises. We have to wait until we have Syrian like exodus before we are even able to lodge a complaint to our local MP.
grega:
06 Jun 2013 9:34:53am
spot on Jonathan great piece.
the malayisan option with an extended regional frame work would have certainly worked in slowing perilous boat journeys but destructive politics by abbott won out over a bi partisan approach by the major parties.
cheers
grega
Tombowler:
06 Jun 2013 9:35:24am
An insipid and pathetic piece of mewling from a commentator seemingly determined to burn all credibility at the altar of lefty idealism.
The intervention was fundamentally a good thing; the rape of children, the domestic violence the ruination brought about by alcohol and petrol in the bush camps are all merely 'cultural' factors to you, Johnathon, perhaps best addressed by blank cheques and few writers week speeches.
The influx of 35,000 economic refugees and the associated costs are of no consequence to you; we should simply through in the door and allow the diffusion of humanity to level our lifestyle and economy to the global mean. Anything less than total acceptance of each and every arrival would, of course, be utterly racist.
Never mind that we, largely because of ideologue fools, are unable to take care of our own '3rd world' bush-camps in the Far North or properly integrate and modernise our own indigenous population; let's spend enormous sums of money on uninvited arrivals.
You do not even attempt any sort of fair-minded academic approach to the issue; merely statements of skewed and emotive quasi-fact followed by a wet and unconvincing bleat that it evidences racism.
The intervention, or something similar, needs to be rebirthed immediately; no facetious concerns about 'racism' ought to be allowed to prevent the urgent reformation of the shameful manner in which we allow our indigenous people to wither, die, exploit and be exploited in bush camps; they are a people, not a museum exhibit, and they must be treated accordingly.
We should immediately release each and every asylum seeker from detention, pending ASIO clearance, then we should withdraw from the UNHCR and declare that no boat arrival can ever be accepted as a refugee and that those bringing children on the boat will be charged with reckless endangerment of a child, all others will be immediately deported. Life jackets washing up on Christmas Island are not symbolic of Australia's racism, Johnathon, it's symbolic of irreconcilable nature of your advocated approach and the safety of those on the boats.
The first and foremost responsibility of the Government is to maintain the security and standard of living of Australians; it may come as a shock to the 'global villagist', but the duty of care to Australians does not extend globally. Global assistance must, without exception, and indeed any action of the government, must conform to the principle of the advancement of Australian interests and those of her people.
kenj:
06 Jun 2013 10:39:11am
"Declare that no boat arrival can ever be accepted as a refugee and that those bringing children on the boat will be charged with reckless endangerment of a child, all others will be immediately deported. "
Laughable if not so tragic in its consequences. As a signatory to the UN Conventions on Refugees we have no alternative other than to accept refugee claims. Otherwise we would need to withdraw from those conventions declaring ourselves to be a pariah state.
Ok, charge them with "reckless endangerment"...and then what? Deport them with the others? Back to where? Back to the people they escaped from? Back to torture cells and murder? Are you for real?
We are not apart from this world and we have good global citizen responsibilities like everyone else.
Tombowler:
06 Jun 2013 1:38:29pm
I know it's difficult with bilous lefty indignation fogging up the trendy hornrims but you've misquoted me to create a strawman:
"...then we should withdraw from the UNHCR and declare that..."
I doubt very much it would cause us to become a 'pariah state' like the many other non-signatory nations(?).
Deport them back from whence they came. It would stop the influx of boats immediately.
The duty of the government to it's own people and interests is a responsibility greater than 'global citizenry'. If the converse were true, would you accept an 90% tax on all citizens possessions and incomes to assist West African poverty?
To give all GDLP beyond subsistence amounts for basic living to those that do not have even that?
Don't be naive.
Reinhard:
06 Jun 2013 11:48:16am
Tom, here's a quick quiz...
Q: How many convictions for child or spousal abuse have there been thanks to Howard's intervention? A: None
Q: How many charges for child or spousal abuse have there been thanks to Howard's intervention? A: None
Q: Who was Howard's Indigenous affairs minister at the time and so in charge of the initial intervention? A: Mal Brough... That name is strangely familiar..
And what on earth makes you think that they actually want to "properly integrate and modernise"?
Tombowler:
06 Jun 2013 1:33:55pm
"In the letter, Jabirr Jabirr elder Rita Augustine tells Mr Brown that "The only thing we need saving from is people who disrespect our decisions and want to see our people locked up in a wilderness and treated as museum pieces".
Read more: http://www.news.com.au/business/companies/we-are-not-museum-pieces-elder..."
People like you, Reinhard, who prefer to promulgate the 'noble savage' myth, are far more racist than any of the much maligned bogans.
Aboriginals are people first and Aboriginals second. Opportunity is required; not some disgusting notion of a 'reserve' in which they live without services, in squalor and in fear of those who act with scant regard to the law.
Marilyn:
06 Jun 2013 3:24:48pm
But they shouldn't have to hand over leases of hard won land rights to get services that everyone else gets without doing so.
And we didn't send the army into the catholic churches did we.
It might shock some of you but aborigines did quite fine here for thousands of years without us.
That Guy:
06 Jun 2013 9:40:06pm
"It might shock some of you but aborigines did quite fine here for thousands of years without us."
Then why do they need us so much now? Why is the solution always more understanding and money?
There are plenty of hard working Indigenous people in this country, fine and upstanding people. If they can do it why do we molly coddle those that choose not to?
What are your thoughts on this Marilyn?
Reinhard:
06 Jun 2013 5:37:07pm
Tom nice bit of projection there, you are the one who is condescending and wants to "civilise" them , or get them to "integrate".
I think I speak with far greater knowledge of their plight than you, I've been to Hermansburg SA, Yulara NT, Arnhem Land and Wujal Wujal on Cape York , and have never said those living situations are in any way acceptable.
What they need more than our money or sympathy is the opportunity to choose their own destiny.
drummer:
06 Jun 2013 12:25:54pm
Tombowler, you have it right. The first major party in govt. who withdraws Australia from the UN Convention, collects the fake refugees and sends them home, will enjoy a surge of support.
Meanwhile, Australian officials confer citizenship on some individuals who cannot, because of their religion, honestly swear allegiance to Australia and its laws. Is this not treason?
One way and another, and little by little, we are giving this once happy country away.
Marilyn:
06 Jun 2013 3:26:42pm
Not true. Why do you think the refugee convention exists?
It exists because the world did indeed decide not to accept refugees in their lands.
The result was the worst genocide in the modern world and the world decided they would not allow that to happen again.
Why are you so against victims of war, genocide and persecution that you would want to slaughter them all?
Who are you to decide that genocide is better than helping those who manage to escape?
John:
06 Jun 2013 9:20:50pm
Because they are not escaping anything, Marilyn Shepherd.
They are migrating.
Ken, St Kilda:
06 Jun 2013 12:26:31pm
Simplistic tripe.
I won't comment on your thoughts on the NT intervention, beyond pointing out that your perspective of "integrating and modernising our indigenous population" is inherently racist, drawing on very old stereotypes about "primitive" peoples.
I do want to know how you intend to deport all those arriving by boat. Where do you think we should send them? Put them back on a boat and tow it back to Indonesia? And what do we do when the Indonesians tell us where to stuff that idea?
Or are you suggesting we put them on a plane back to their country of origin? Send the Hazara back to Afghanistan, the Rohingya back to Myanmar, Syrians back to the Assad regime?
The first and foremost responsibility of any Australian government is to preserve our nation as a civilised community - sending people back to an effective death sentence would be a very large step to destroying that for all time.
ThatFlemingGent:
06 Jun 2013 12:43:00pm
"An insipid and pathetic piece of mewling from a commentator seemingly determined to burn all credibility at the altar of lefty idealism."
Followed up by a truly condescending and intelligence-insulting paean to far-Right paternalism and arrogant cultural superiority.
Your comment, reduced to it's core arguments assumes that these people are not "legitimate" and thus incapable of looking after themselves or behaving honestly ; that they need us (assumedly white anglo-Saxon Europeans, being the supposed top of the natural order, Right?) to "save them from themselves" while simultaneously ignoring the plight of others in dire need simply because they're "outsiders" and Fortress Australia must be defended at all costs from these "outsiders", even if it means isolationism, in the twisted worldview of proponents such as yourself.
...because surely this throwback policy, having failed miserably last time, must SURELY work this time? Arrant nonsense.
*shakes head, sighs*
Tombowler:
06 Jun 2013 2:13:30pm
You are aware, 'FlamingGent', that you've misquoted me a numbers of times; something I consider intellectually indecent.
I did not say:
"..save them from themselves..";
"...outsiders..", or;
"..legitiamte.."
You've predictably applied your own prejudices to my comment to produce some "...arrant nonsense." At what point did I mention anglo-Saxon Europeans? Our nation as it stands has a rich and deep ethnic mix and I wholly support that.
You're an intellectual lightweight only able to present preconceived arguments to straw-men or questions that no-one asked.
dmills:
06 Jun 2013 12:56:59pm
" ... we should withdraw from the UNHCR and declare that no boat arrival can ever be accepted as a refugee and that those bringing children on the boat will be charged with reckless endangerment of a child, all others will be immediately deported."
"any action of the government, must conform to the principle of the advancement of Australian interests and those of her people."
If the children are from a war-torn country or stuck in a refugee camp with 3rd world conditions I can't see how putting them on a boat out of there constitutes reckless endangerment. Sometimes staying put has higher risks than escape (even via an unseaworthy vessel).
Australia is in the UN because of, not despite, "the principle of the advancement of Australian interests and those of her people". Australia is formally part of a global body because it has global interests. Isolation is not really a viable option in the 21st C.
Marko:
06 Jun 2013 3:04:02pm
"An insipid and pathetic piece of mewling from a commentator seemingly determined to burn all credibility at the altar of lefty idealism."
Nicely skewered and richly deserved.
Serenity:
06 Jun 2013 9:37:27am
Great article.
This brings to mind "The Lucifer Effect"
Removing people of their humanity by saying Queue Jumpers, etc.
This can now be called "the Howard Effect"
Dehumanising the people without recognising the true nature of humanity fleeing from persecution, i.e. the lies of the "children overboard" proclamation! Or now "Send the Boats Back"
Racism is just fear of the unknown, and believing the lies that the refugees are getting a better deal than our own people.
donna:
06 Jun 2013 10:25:43am
"the Howard Effect" .. yes, that is exactly where the dogwhistle was meant to lead you
It's nice to see a master manipulator at work, Jonathan certainly knows his flock!
SA:
06 Jun 2013 12:20:43pm
then, how do you go about humanizing those without the means or capacity to get themselves to a point of safety.
you know the ones - those hundreds of thousands world wide that are stuck in refugee camps (Jordan - Ethiopia etc etc)
Bluey:
06 Jun 2013 9:43:13am
So people smugglers aren't evil, they're really good blokes who care about the unfortunate? And 1000 plus drownings at sea is irrelevant? And the riots in Sweden are a positive step forward for their country?
Jonathan most of us don't have the time to live in a Disney world where the birds all sing in the trees and everyone is lovely. We support controlled immigration and meaningful foreign aid, but are not prepared to give away our country in the childish belief that everything will turn out fine.
If all asylum seekers actually were escaping persecution there would be more support, but some have openly admitted they were after a free education, or better jobs. You can't ignore that.
I've been labelled a "xenophobic redneck" for stating concern about the fact Chinese owned farms are bypassing Australian markets and sending wool, lamb, wheat and dairy directly to China. Yet I also sell wool to China and consider them important trading partners.
But should I meekly sit back and accept the demise of my business in case someone thinks I don't love the Chinese? How did Australia become such a weak, childish country?
And when did it become a crime to care about one's country and wish to prevent it from becoming similar to those nations immigrants are now fleeing from?
Rascism began when countries who built grand buildings and roads conquered those who didn't. Now, it lingers here and there but in our country town at least, it's barely an issue anymore. Strangely, the only rascism we hear about is in Sydney and Melbourne.
RobJ:
06 Jun 2013 12:12:33pm
"I've been labelled a "xenophobic redneck" "
Really!
"So people smugglers aren't evil,"
Oscar Schindler? Bonhoffer?
"And when did it become a crime to care about one's country and wish to prevent it from becoming similar to those nations immigrants are now fleeing from?"
Aaah, now I see why some may call you a xenophobic redneck, it's because the statements you make are just like statements made by ignorant, xenophobic rednecks. Unless you're an Aboriginal you're pretty much a boat person and this is easily one of the best places in the world to live.
Bluey:
06 Jun 2013 3:57:41pm
Well thanks RobJ, you've added "ignorant" to my statement -although you've ignored my concern of ag exports. Easier just to insult someone from outside a major city, no matter how well educated, read or travelled you asume them to be! It's sooo typical, one could almost call it a rascist comment.
And I'm sorry, Schindler rescuing Jews from extermination camps has little to do with Sri Lankans seeking more pay. Unless there are North Koreans on the boats? There should be.
gosolarandpickupyourrubbish:
06 Jun 2013 12:38:46pm
Hi Bluey
I agree, haven't heard of any rascism in Queenscland either. Those pescky Sydneysciders and Melbourniansc with their new fangled ideasc.
2Much:
06 Jun 2013 9:45:03am
Sorry, Jonathan, but this piece belongs in the sewer. You claim that fear, hate and prejudice are behind all objections to asylum seekers and immigrant workers. That is trash. Many, many people who you accuse of xenophobia have lots of friends and acquaintances from a wide variety of racial and cultural backgrounds.
The objections are nearly always practical in nature. Uncontrolled immigration of people who haven't been assessed as suitable for us economically or socially risks a huge blowout. We've seen that in the last 12 months. It's imperative that we regain control somehow, or we could be overwhelmed and forced to wear massive costs of resettling people who may never work. Other people are fearful of their jobs being taken by outsiders no matter what their background.
Control is paramount for a successful society. Total lack of it has always made humans nervous. That is never going to change. The reason that bleeding-heart sympathisers aren't objecting is that they foolishly believe that things are under control.
Michael Macklin:
06 Jun 2013 9:46:25am
True, Jonathon, but it does not have to be so. I spent many years in politics as an Australian Democrat senator and our approach was to avoid personality politics. We played the ball not the person and I have forever been thankful for the advice from Don Chipp that one had to look oneself in the mirror the following morning and feel that one was focused on the good of the community not on one's career.
Unfortunately the Australian Democrats, by and large, have always been more interested in achieving results than in getting the kudos for having achieved them. Of course, in Australian politics this is not a very sensible thing to do because political memories are short and one can achieve one?s goals at the expense of one?s seat. Martyrdom may be effective in gaining converts but it is killing on the nerves and lethal to parties - so we currently hold no seats.
The Australian Democrats have contributed an enormous amount to the body politic in Australia. There is no need for a textbook to tell us that since it is recorded on the face of this continent. The Australian Democrat route has always been value politics and that cannot be played with dirty hands but only with bleeding hearts.
davidlb:
06 Jun 2013 9:46:38am
The human race is RACEist.
We all think our own particular way is best. Otherwise we would be doing it another way.
Nationalism - the belief that ones nation is best. Based purely on the fact that one was born in that nation.
Raceism - the belief that ones race is best. Based purely on the fact that one was born into that race.
Find a nation or race that is not nationalist or racist.
Gemma:
06 Jun 2013 12:40:10pm
So true. People like Jonathan should get down off their pedestal and be careful their halo doesn't slip.
It's nature.
John51:
06 Jun 2013 9:47:38am
Jonathan, there is much of what you say here that is true, but I would tend to say that politics more often reflects both the worst and at times the best of society. And of course instead of simply focusing on what you see as the worst examples, you could have also provided examples of the best of politics. Such as for example labor's policies for disabilities and for more equity in funding within education.
I do find it interesting that you seemed to put Gillard and labors argument against the abuses of the 457 visa up there with the greatest prominence. I do disagree on this part of your article. The problem is that the 457 visa is and will always be open to abuse by business. There will always be that proportion of business that will want to take advantage of such a system to employ people on lower wages and conditions. And unless you have strict oversight of its use there will always be instances of it abuse as there have been. To think otherwise is to be extremely naive.
Dean:
06 Jun 2013 9:51:50am
The reason for the different responses to the "single hurled syllable" from a 13 year old and the "subtle dog whistle" from our politicians was that that her comment was explicit, not veiled.
Many in the community, understandably but I believe mistakenly, are uncomfortable with others who do not look or sound like them. Expressing negative views of those of other races has become taboo and, unlike our politicians, very few people have sufficient language skills to express their feelings in a socially acceptable way. This leaves people feeling that their voice has not been heard and that our laws are unfair to them, leaving the area ripe for exploitation.
Although this may seem like a backwards step, long term progress in the area of racial harmony may require us to change our laws to match community sentiment. Every time the news reports on a refugee winning an appeal in court or their is mention of the UN Refugee Convention I believe that opinions against asylum seekers harden (I can't believe nobody has run before and after polls on this) as we see these institutions as undemocratic and not representing us. On the flipside, our current marriage laws discriminate against homosexuals, but this will change soon due to the shift in public opinion over the last 20 years.
Free Advice:
06 Jun 2013 9:56:04am
Don't forget the hate, fear and loathing involved in bullying a 13 year old girl from the wrong side of the tracks Johnathan.
Chrism:
06 Jun 2013 9:56:37am
Wow! Jonathan Green has finaly discovered that not everyone shares in the ABC groupthink on every issue. They must all be nasty racists.
We are seeing a lot of these ugly rants against the Australian people as the reality of Labor's coming annihlation at the polls becomes undeniable. How dare those filthy stupid Australians do that!
Grow up all of you.
rockpig:
06 Jun 2013 9:56:51am
Such vitriol from some commentators. Such hate and loathing for their own country and countrymen/women.
If you think that you can find a better country to reside, then emigrate.
Goodbye.
It is not racism as such, but cultural-ism, ie. those from cultures that do not stand for the fair go, or espouse equality for all, that is despised. Those that appear to be jumping the perceived queue or taking us for suckers, they are for whom we have distaste for.
I like to believe that mate-ship still exists in Australia, but it is a two-way street. A little more respect for the traditions of our country and culture, which is far from a mono-culture now as ever, from those entering via direct/indirect routes.
Why must we bend to accommodate them, but they cannot for us?
Why must they hide in enclaves and bring the prejudices and bronze age mentality baggage with them?
Perhaps true freedom is too empowering of a concept for their indoctrinated minds.
It appears that in the eyes of certain advocates, the existing population must make all the changes, but the new arrivals none.
This isn't racism we have for some new arrivals, but a genuine feeling of perceived indifference that is exhibited to the generosity given by the locals, but not equally shown to the great people and society entered into.
Quid pro quo!
gp:
06 Jun 2013 9:58:30am
Brilliant article. You hit the nail on the head and the tragedy is that if you ask most Australians, they will deny they are racists when all you hear about and where their votes go is based on xenophobia and racism. What I also find tragic is that those who should know better like the churches and the religious are quiet about the denigration of refugees and the open hostility. Is it because they are not Christian , not like us. I also find it very disconcerting that the worst offenders in parliament nad outside are those who consider themselves religious and Catholic and church goers. These are the very same hypocrites who recite the lords prayer at parliament. Fine do it but don't call yourself Christian and that includes the churches, cardinals and bishops.
Sean M:
06 Jun 2013 12:23:45pm
Are you a racist GP?
Alpo:
06 Jun 2013 9:58:57am
Follow the downward spiral to oblivion:
a) Start from a more or less 50/50 2PP where the vote of fringe minorities becomes essential to win an election.
b) Identify the minority that you think is more easily manipulated.
c) Got it: the not wealthy, not highly educated, not happy with their lot in life. They watch complete morons on TV becoming rich and famous and cannot work out why the system is not working for them.
d) Focus the strategic minority towards specific scapegoats.
e) Got it: refugees, immigrants, asylum seekers, muslims, dark-skinned ones.
f) So it's all the fault of the bloody aliens.
g) Get Party A to embrace those voters, with the help of the MSM.
h) Get Party B to embrace the same voters, without the help of the MSM.
i).... Bid farewell to your country.... it's on its route to oblivion!!
John:
06 Jun 2013 2:09:17pm
Yes, Alpo, we have been travelling down the route to oblivion for nearly six long, dark, painful years.
But that's all about to change.
Universal Soldier Mk 2:
06 Jun 2013 10:01:33am
The free speech furphy via Murdoch and his "store bought souls" has reinforced..."danger Wil Robinson"!
The division that is played out is all about control...labour.
The bastards are taking our jobs...even though we don't want to do that work?
It is not the educated but the "skilled/trades/semi-skilled plus bogon fodder (don't or can't do a decent days work) not because of disability but the genetic rubbish that is still in quantity in our nation.
This brief is an assault on all...come 14/9 this nation will be in the hands of a man that will have benefited by all that this country has degenerated to...a large island owned by the world!
Kitty:
06 Jun 2013 10:02:53am
It is good to start this conversation, it has been a long time coming.
When we judge this very ugly society we have created by allowing politicians, beginning most with Howard and now Abbott, journalists should also share blame because all marvelled at the "tactics" and clever slogans and never once asked the question, is this right?
We see it also with the irrational persecution of the business of installing fibre. The few rogue contractors will destroy the livelihood of the majority as happened with the pink batt installations, all for the short term gain of politics. Who has asked the question, is this right?
We are pandering and promoting self interest and ignorance, the majority is ignored, our society slides into anger, fear and division and becomes uglier by the day. Abbott's vision?. Who will ask the question, is this right?
Australia is no longer the land of a fair go and we have allowed it to happen. Time to grow up.
Tim Hoff:
06 Jun 2013 12:54:21pm
@ Kitty. Oh please. Australia is still the land of the 'fair go' but doesn't want to be the land of the 'free ride'
Stirrer:
06 Jun 2013 12:54:55pm
Kitty; "Our society slides into fear,anger and division every day" so true.
Asylum seekers, Slipper, Thomson. Indepedendents, Welfare recipients, lefties, unions, government, Labor, Greenies, bleeders, refugees, feminists, gays et al are all subjected to demonising in a society which is becoming more and more de sensitised.
As Aldus Huxley would day -it is all a distraction to stop us from any desire to rebel by propoganda and brainwashing and ask Abbott and the LNP the hard questions.
As a friend -an ex Lib remarked-the man is so controlled-too controlled.
Universal Soldier Mk 2:
06 Jun 2013 1:05:48pm
Kitty, in one real sense it is still fiction up until the closing polls on the 14/9?
NBN is now "what we have been saying all along LNP) a waste of money and "asbestos and poisons" never mentioned but now a staple for the conservatives.
This is why education is much hated by the conservatives...people actually research with an education framework, that will be put on hold.
Abbott's family history has yet to hit our screens (WW11) and maybe that will stir up some...the hypocrisy for mother England (his father and grandfather didn't have it)?
Numb/dumb that is the Australian way...how quickly they forget the wars of the 21st century?
Kimberley:
06 Jun 2013 10:05:53am
Talk about over hysterical Jonathan. You need to go overseas mate.
Alfie:
06 Jun 2013 10:06:42am
"...our cold-hearted policy aimed at resisting the arrival of refugees from war, hunger, poverty, oppression and simple fear?"
Unfortunately, the vast majority of 'boat people' pay money to people smugglers to bypass our legitimate migration system. They are queue jumpers.
The fact is, this Labor government dismantled the Pacific Solution which has resulted in flood of boat people costing may lives and billions of Australian taxpayers dollars.
It has little to do with "hate, fear and prejudice", but more to do with Labor's total political incompetence that has allowed this to happen.
Terry:
06 Jun 2013 10:06:53am
Yet another article from Mr Green. Pretty much the same as his others. They all follow the same format.
First, Mr Green's view is right. No need to even discuss it. Ipso facto, anyone who disagrees is wrong. Therefore no need to discuss any arguments they may have. The only point of interest is why these people think wronly.
It cannot be a rational reason, as this would contradict point 1. It must therefore be irrational. In the case of disagreeing re immigration and/or the treatment of those claiming to be indigenous, the cause must be racism. No need to discuss: it is self evident.
He has used the same approach about global warming (greedy, religious), same-sex marriage (homophobic/religious) and politics (greedy, misogynist).
He presumably believes this.
Has he considered that instead of being "xenophobic and insular" and "racist" that the public is quite rational?
It has been told for years that one class of people are different and must be treated differently. They are not to be treated as the bulk of the population and therefore whenever one deals with another person, you must first determine if they belong to the "race" that must be treated specially. By forcing people to do this, you make them appear racist. After a while they start think: "These people who are different - maybe it's true. Maybe they are more likely to be drunk, to steal or be aggressive. I mean, the government, the courts, the intellectuals tell me that race exists."
As for immigration: to call Australia racist would be laughable if it were not so damaging. For at least 50 years Australia has welcomed waves of immigrants of all "races". The primary selector was not race but ability to integrate. Some change was acceptable, but not too much and not too fast.
Unfortunately the population was never asked about a change in immigration policy that led to more people coming from markedly different cultures. Either of these changes could probably have been handled, but both together created stress. To complain about immigration policy was immediately attacked as being racist, whereas all that was asked was for some moderation, a slow down. But now the only thing that people feel they can complain about is those not invited, the self-selecting immigrants.
So instead of Australia being a seething mass of hatred (the view Mr Green apparently has) it is really a country of normal people, friendly but a bit resistant to change. A country where for some unknown reason the government promotes racism in laws, policy and now the constitution.
I know which Australia I live in.
TimG:
06 Jun 2013 1:31:33pm
Well said Terry, I know you speak for a lot of Australians. A lot of Australians who, it may surprise Mr Green to realise, can think for themselves and are definitely not racist.
Help101:
06 Jun 2013 10:09:49am
As a person who has lived all over this planet of ours in various cultures I can clearly say Australians are the least racist people I have ever met and had the priviledge to live amongst.
Thanks for having me and don't change.
wandererfromoz:
06 Jun 2013 10:12:22am
A good article to a point ----
We often talk of the silent majority or the 'people who are the salt of the earth'- well many many are - but they never hit the headlines, don't queue up at the latest fashion show, sporting event, or whatever that hits the news or the social pages.
They just get on with their work which for most is very demanding. They do their best to bring up their kids. They volunteer. They participate.
But then they sigh - a big sigh - how come after years we still talk of unaffordable housing, the wretched home alone homeless - in the scores and scores of thousands - the all too poor who cannot afford at least disease preventative dental care, the sky rocketing rentals, the ever ending stretch of the family budget - and so it goes on. Broken promises, lies, subterfuge, disassembling, excuses, absolutely appalling decision making across the board and incredible waste - and yet we can spend a billion or more on a stadium enjoyed by less than 3% of the population and any grandiose project whilst basics go missing everywhere. These people see these realities, they don't abuse any person of another race, they don't go to street parties and hurl abuse and bottles at the police but in fact they tear their guts out contributing to a quiet beautiful and peaceful society.
I wouldn't be at all surprised if carefully analysed these people who you never hear of are actually in the majority - hence the coming massacre of this government who are judged to have initiated many many good things but failed on far too many fronts again and again and again. We are also a very patient people.
paradise:
06 Jun 2013 10:12:57am
We've always had racism and xenophobia, but it swells up on occasions, certainly lately. Since this convict compound gradually became a capitalists' goldmine and something of a workers' paradise, fear of intruders is "normal" and fear of racial dilution, yellow hordes, muslim fanatics, all makes the nazi threat look weak. We have plenty of brownshirt and blackshirt types, often of catholic and/or European background, often with a keen audience waiting for a lovely Nuremburg moment of exultation, righteousness, triumphalism, supremacy and dynamic in-crowd belonging. Old and generous theories about liberaliam, socialism and community concern are quickly diminished by jingos and slogans. The shock-horror conservatives are coming.
Alan W.:
06 Jun 2013 10:15:18am
Jonathan, you nor anyone else in the illegal immigrant debate have yet to satisfactorily explain the carriage of boat people. To quote ?refugees from war, hunger, poverty, oppression and simple fear?, now were does the hunger and poverty in the quote come from? Because if you have money to pay for illegal passage to Australia then you are neither poor nor hungry but you?re still an illegal migrant into this country.
Re, the 457 visa workers I can name a company here in Perth that employs all Filipino workers as electricians and some welders, the workers are housed 12 to a house, a 4 x 2 with two prefab bedrooms and a shower tacked on the back. The house is owned by the company owner and the workers are charged $140 p/w rent to share a room, the workers are paid hour for hour, minimum rate, no O/T, no holidays, one month per year for home leave unpaid and pay their own way there and back, no sick pay, no RDO?s and if they don?t like it they can bugger off at the own cost of course. There are electricians and welders in Perth looking for jobs as not everyone wants to work in a remote albeit well paid job and let?s not forget Big Gina?s plans for the Australian workforce 457 visa?s or otherwise, $2 a day and think yourself lucky!
Some relevant points in this opinion piece but mostly twaddle.
donna:
06 Jun 2013 10:19:30am
Let it go Jonathan, you and the rest of the left try to dogwhistle this one every so often, then attempt to blame conservatives for it
those days, thankfully are over when you can get away with it, the left love it and the rest of us see it for what it is
A desire to return to the days of combat when conservatives are in government and you can all snipe from the sidelines again
Ah you must be soooo looking forward to the return of conservatives in government, you're even practicing your pitch
Who is the racist and who is it trying to stir things up?
Chris Graham:
06 Jun 2013 10:22:18am
Thank you Jonathon Green. Wish I wrote that. I'm always perplexed by Australians who openly wonder why Aboriginal people suffer such appalling life circumstances, and can't make a link to our past and present racism. The elephant in the room.
AGB:
06 Jun 2013 10:24:37am
What a beat-up Jonathan.
Even Labor MP Lauri Fergusan ackowledges it's not just 'redneck' bogans taking exception to Labor's border security failings.
Much of the ill-feeling comes from Australians from non-Anglo backgrounds.
Australians aren't fixated on race.
It's the perception that the current crop of boat people are rorting an important instrument of international law to freeload off Australian taxpayers that's the problem.
John M:
06 Jun 2013 10:25:47am
I think the point lost by many people in this debate is that the refugees are mainly economic. Ask why the boats don't stop in Indonesia, a land of relative stability, or why they don't head to China, a country of rapid growth and opportunity?. The answer is they want to move to the current No. 1 economic destination, OZ !!!.
And, it's interesting that migrants that have already settled here, especially those that came via the front door, don't support boat people.
Of course, personally, I say let them all in here tomorrow. I'll enjoy linving in an OZ land of 1.2 billion people where we can share the same empoverished conditions as the rest of the world. To think otherwise is racist afterall.... !!!
AGB:
06 Jun 2013 1:11:28pm
JM, get up to speed.
The current crop of boat people are coming to Australia under the auspices of claiming political asylum, per the UN Convention for Refugees.
While economic migrants come here to work and contribute, the Immigration Department reports that 95% of successful asylum seekers remain completely dependant on government welfare even after five years of settlement. Hence the hostility from taxpaying Australians.
BAJ Darwin:
06 Jun 2013 10:28:14am
Well said. We are being told constantly in the media by politicians and the media players we are in crisis over boat arrivals and the need for emergency army intervention in NT aboriginal affairs (a Howard move continued to lesser extent now by the present Federal government).
The overt racism expressed by the general population and the media player McGuire doesn't help either. We are put into a situation of have alarm run down our throats when what would be more helpful is alertness to what long term social and economic policies could help alleviate the plight of terrified refugees and disadvantaged Aboriginees.
It is bleak to think that appealing to the baseness in community perceptions of these 2 groups can be thought to have political advantage.
Both are complex issues that need to be worked through calmly and rationally and we do not see this always. But their plight requires it to get appropriate outcomes. But I do hope that there is a core of people (not sure how large) who see this and want it.
Many do NOT want pandering to this fear and see it as shameful. So it is up to leaders (in government and the media) to set the tone and give us a balanced discussion on the issues of refugees/new arrivals (I prefer to refer to them as this), and of Aboriginees who ARE getting increasingly vocal on what they see as the solutions.
rumpole2:
06 Jun 2013 10:28:31am
Is racism really behind all objections to "boat people" ?
Not entirely. What people are concerned about is that WE control who comes into this country, not people smugglers. If you have uncontrolled borders, you have uncontrolled migration. We have a right to admit people we think most likely will contribute to the country, not have it decided for us.
There is also the increasing cost of working out who these people are and if they have proper refugee status, and feeding and housing them while this process takes place. The statement that they are all fleeing from persecution is unsubstantiated. Why do a lot of them throw away their identity documents and put the onus on us to prove they are not refugees, rather than doing what any genuine refugee would do, which is to fall over backwards to prove that they are genuine ?
To ask those questions is not racism, it's commonsense and our right.
Was racism behind the NT intervention ?
I doubt it, but I also doubt that it was altruism either. The fact is that the situation was an international embarrassment to us, and the plight of the aboriginal was being circulated around the world and we were being seen in a bad light on the international stage. Something had to be done to rescue our reputation as a "compassionate society", and it was.
Gavin:
06 Jun 2013 10:30:04am
Well, at least nobody is hitting Gillard pinatas with sticks.
Alan W.:
06 Jun 2013 10:33:19am
Jonathan, explain this to me please. I have been a resident of this country for close on 30 years and when I finally get round to applying for citizenship my application is refused. Why? I worked overseas, in Singapore and South Korea for longer than 12 months on each occasion and the rules now state that I have to prove that I am of good character by providing a police report from the relevant country saying I was not caught doing anything naughty!
I?m refused citizenship by the same people, the department of Immigration and Citizenship who keep letting me back into the country on my resident return visa! They don?t give a stuff where I?ve been or what I?ve been doing there unless I wish to swear allegiance to a woman I don?t regard as relevant to anything and I?m British. My exit and entry into this country since my arrival in 1986 is well documented by immigration but I have less chance of citizenship than an illegal immigrant whose first act when boarding a boat in Indonesia is to throw his identity paper over the side.
To paraphrase ?Please explain?.
Gone to the races:
06 Jun 2013 2:11:27pm
@ Alan W I hear you buddy. I have recently moved to Canada and had to provide police reports from Asian countries where I worked for many years. No free lunches not even if you're part of the Commonwealth group of countries. Fancy the Canadians not trusting a good Aussie citizen like me.
RosieA:
06 Jun 2013 10:39:09am
Jonathan, I am sure you have stirred the ant nest and will be deluged with posts. I think the problem is much bigger than you discuss though......it is set in the context of the human population having exceeded the capacity of the planet to provide the western lifestyle to which we have become accustomed. A changing climate is only exacerbating the problems of instability and will result in "climate refugees" as well. These basic facts are being denied and fought against in so many places, in so many ways.......rather than working out solutions that bring stability (including stopping environmental degradation & climate change) and accommodate the many, we are fighting to maintain our own privileges and what many now see as "rights".
Generally speaking, Australians have become self-indulgent and self-focused (have a look at any advertising these days.....it is all geared to individual consumption and ?having?). The waste of resources in discarded "junk" and the pollution of our environment are enormous, as is the destruction of nature. But we demand more, we adulate and seek to emulate the wealthy and we protest that there should be no restrictions and no requirement to be responsible for any "other" (be it people, other living beings or the very earth processes that support life).
We don't want to recognize reality, we don't want to lose our current lifestyles, we don't want to change. The last three years of government has symbolized the bigger fight. The Opposition (backed by wealthy business) has fought against every initiative that has sought to make responsible adjustments to the new realities.......the carbon tax, investment in renewable energy, marine parks, banning the super trawler, gambling reform, fairer taxes, improved education, and so the list goes on. Basically the Opposition, with the support of the press, has fought to destroy not only the government but the whole underlying concept that our way of life is not sustainable, pushing denial and promoting individual self-interest at the expense of society as a whole. They have played to the baser instincts of the Australian people and they have succeeded in an overwhelming way, so we are told. In the process they have destroyed proper process, proper debate and the need to consider reality....... the reality has been portrayed as "the imaginings of others", ?crap? and "left-wing" ideology, to provide just a few of the so called ?arguments?. With the massive attacks on the minority government arising from the perceived threats to the status quo, many government MPs seem to have questioned their own path and turned against their own??.it seems they have been caught in a fight and on seeing with whom the public sides, believe they should change their policies. They too, have failed to see the bigger picture.
Ugly, isn't it. Civilization in decline. Earth systems in decli
Harquebus:
06 Jun 2013 2:42:17pm
When journalists fear for their own safety it will already be too late. Something has to give and our journalists are letting us down. I agree.
New world:
06 Jun 2013 2:48:42pm
Hi
The world is not in decline, just developing to cope with limits. So governments have to address how things need limiting. We all can have it good as long as limits are adhered to and controlled.
RosieA:
06 Jun 2013 2:56:56pm
To complete the above: Will our better instincts rise up and prevail or will our anger, anxieties, greed and self-preoccupation trample all? (I have learnt - don't cut and paste from a word document - punctuation is not the same and word count is different!)
Stirrer:
06 Jun 2013 6:03:29pm
Excellent post RosieA-thank you. And you are soo right- we have become self indulgent and self focused and basic facts are being denied.
Facts like usustainable debt driven- earth destroying "growth".
None are more deniers the connies (conservatives) who are now the storm troopers of the economic rationalists intent on placing us- or 80% of us into servitude in what Aldus Huxley would call the 'final revolt' or is that the "final Solition".
Please keep it up Rosie- I have a feeling you will be needed sometime in the immediate to near future to help in the rescue from what Pope Francis called 'economic dicatorship"
Alexander:
06 Jun 2013 10:39:45am
Thank-you Jonathan.
Thank-you for saying so eloquently what I have been feeling.
The sickening appeals to racism of the refugee policies of both parties since Tampa has left me depressed and furious in various measures. The outrage at the racist comments made on Public Transport and at SportBall events is incongruous with the dog-whistle racism of the current governments refugee policies, let alone those of the other party.
luvaunty:
06 Jun 2013 10:39:59am
Racism may not be smart & many people may not admit to it. But listen to their conversation when it goes in a certain direction and it isn't far underneath. They just don't realise how racist they are, so the next thing is to draw their attention to what they have said. Response:I didn't really mean it. .....Then to get onto deeper realities of what this means in real life - do you have a conversation?No. Because it's a case of NIMBY.
John:
06 Jun 2013 10:42:49am
Yes thanks for the honest talk there is not enough of it.
I keep thinking of Jordan - first they had the Palestinians, then the Iraq war, and now the Syrian war. They have millions of refugees flooding across their borders for many years but I never hear of them whinging like Australians do.
I am only thinking the turns the boats back obsession is just our latest brand of race hate.
Greg:
06 Jun 2013 10:48:30am
Admirable as it is, this piece conflates two issues that are better kept separate: attitudes to indigenous Australians, and attitudes to refugees on boats. All politicians can be expected to make pious noises about the former; almost all can be expected to talk tough about the latter. Voters don't care about the former; it seems they care about little else but the latter.
The queue of blockheads who sought on this site recently to claim the right to climb Uluru because they were born here, or because they pay their taxes, shows that we have a long way to go before indigenous people, traditions and beliefs are accorded proper respect in this country. We might call that the racism of contempt.
The latter is th racism of fear. It's no concidence that the Liberal resurgence began when they landed on the issue of the boats turning up again. It's now tattooed on their malevolent soul. They will not let it go.
One tragedy from all this is that all the kerfuffel about a few harmless people on rickety boats diverts us from the real problem. Refugees are typically humble, grateful, respectful of the country that has accepted them. The problem comes with the next generation. The children of refugees did not ask to come here; they are born here but still not accepted, so they grow up resentful, angry and some turn hostile. They have no place else to go. They are Australian, but not treated as such.
Sometimes, in their search for a place we patently fail to provide, they turn to terror, and then they are treated as monsters. If they are monsters, they are monsters of our making. Hence the Cabramatta heroin crisis, 7/7 in Britain, the Swedish problem, and many more.
Here's a thought: might we try kindness and acceptance? Surely it's worth a go.
Honest Johnny:
06 Jun 2013 10:53:59am
The hate, fear, and prejudice trend in the "heartland" coincided with the rise of Howard's battlers and Hansonism. Howard's battlers resulted from the gradual economic and social shift from blue-collar workers to small business owners/tradies with ABNs. It also produced high levels of insecurity and the need for scapegoats. In this climate, playing the racist card is easy and lazy politics, but will gain votes in the "heartland". The Liberal leadership of Howard and Abbott heavily rely on this and Labor are scrambling to catch up. None of it displays courage nor leadership. There is also a distinct lack of vision for the rest of the country to follow.
Joe:
06 Jun 2013 10:55:01am
Jonathan Green,
Your article totally looses all credibility by including Julia Gillards comment in your discussion.
What is wrong with making sure businesses train and employ Australians before looking overseas for workers???
To argue otherwise, as you have, just illustrates your idealism and inability to comprehend the real world.
Jimmy Necktie:
06 Jun 2013 2:00:49pm
she should have said that then, not make it an us-'n-them argument.
Also I don't agree with making business train people. Obviously it's up to them, but it's not government's role to enforce such things. Where does it end? Should business be offering remedial maths classes to those who couldn't be bothered to work in HS?
el-viejo:
06 Jun 2013 10:57:24am
National sovereignty is defined as the quality of having authority over the national territory. The national territory is defined as a geographic area within the national borders. In Australia, the authority over the national territory is vested in a democratically elected Government. None of the above engage the concept of race. If the concepts of sovereignty, territory, border, Government and democracy are unacceptable to you, Jonathan, and you wish them to be subordinated to some other concepts, please say so.
Jimmy Necktie:
06 Jun 2013 1:57:21pm
"a geographic area within the national borders"
Unless you excise the country from itself.
CB:
06 Jun 2013 10:59:08am
Very well said indeed.
This political tactic 'works' because we accept (consciously or otherwise) the premises of the argument on which it is based.
We are all racist. We see the world a certain way from our own cultural perspective. We need to challenge our preconceptions, to look at the facts regarding asylum seekers and to reach conclusions accordingly.
David Nicholas:
06 Jun 2013 10:59:32am
Bravo, Jonathon, well said.
The only way one conquers racism is by starting with oneself. Racism in Australia has always been the fear of working and lower middle class Australians spreading upward because it became a tried and true election winner. Menzies did it throughout the late 1950s and the early 1960s.
Back then it used to be blatant but as political correctness came to dominate the social agenda, politicians learned to disguise it in clever language. "Stop the Boats" is the current case in point. It symbolizes all our fears in three words. It's Howard Racism that has become an Abbottism.
Racism is about losing self-respect. Using racism as a key-point for winning an election conveys the perception that we are second class, have bad self-esteem and that we are not top shelf. We are not the best of the best.
Given the believe that Australia can isolate itself from it's multi-cultural neighbors by water and insulate the nagging influence of non-white foreigners, to right this grievous wrong quickly can only come about by some serious shock and awe that makes us stop and take stock.
My answer would be in five or so years down the road when one of our near neighbors decides to dictate terms about our economic survival that we will sit up and listen and then it could be way too late. Every near neighbor we have that we do serious big business with, outnumbers our population in ratios that are overwhelming. And it won't be pleasant. This time is coming.
So when a considered community leader utters a racist comment, even dressed up as light-hearted jest, rather than remove him for saying it, he is embraced as a "magnificent leader," it stinks. Frankly, it just proves our so-called leaders are second-rate losers to be held in contempt and the perception is that we as a people endorse his position because we don't punish him, but reward him and by quickly "putting it behind us" and forgetting.
Tony Abbott is the same. I see no difference here and we are the less for it.
Thank you, Jonathon, your brilliance shines as usual.
rowan:
06 Jun 2013 11:04:18am
We each have a responsibility to ensure we INFORM our opinions when considering the political future of this country. All you who've rallied to the dog whistle, as Green has said, are debasing the political debate. I am ashamed to live in a country whose politics have been dominated by this topic for more than a decade, ever since Howard seized a key media opportunity to accuse (wrongly) a few refugees of throwing their kids off a sinking boat.
The longer this issue remains sensational, the longer the idiot base of this country is distracted from understanding the real governance of this country.
The boat is sinking, and we're the kids being thrown overboard. Ask yourself: how wise is it to let this issue decide the future of our country? Well, with the choice of voting for either beavis or butthead, it doesn't really matter anyway, as long as they argue about boats some more.
WAKE UP AUSTRALIA!
philip travers:
06 Jun 2013 11:05:16am
Now! Listen to my thoughts Jonathan! If you cannot write anything about what you consider is a rump of racism, because of people like Pauline Hanson etc. Please refrain the use of our,as a word. A quick glimpse into a English Dictionary disallows that word to be used in the context ,that you insist upon.I will remind you ,I may still have a problem with people like you.That is I think British Isles people landing on Australian shores have a disproportionate advantage by speaking English as a first language. Not only that,but your opinion is via the Australian Broadcasting Corporation,that ,frankly attracts poms like flies! Some of the most retrograde attitudes in Australia belong to that fettle that thinks if a reference to civilisation includes the British as culture,that can have an acceptable multiculture. F O!? Do not confuse what appears as racism when all sorts of influences maybe at work to produce that effect.Including injury,cost of living,general insecurity,being told to accept people as strangers,and somehow,everyone is standardized by Government Policy.Can one expect a reasonably attitude from many people,when fines etc., many NEW Zealanders and host of wing bats are thrown into The Great Big Melting Pot!?I think the issue of refugees is larger much larger than the individual,where confusion is easy,and contempt is possible,and even with a high degree of tolerance,myself,I just don't want to criticise those who have a problem with refugees.And the reason why is simple.One the costs are so great,and two I can feel the same as anyone else,but declare,that is not where I want to be.No pushing a formality of morality down other peoples throats,if you think that one has a sense that matters of difficulty will be overcome.One doesn't decide one is a leader.It is impossible.But, if people cannot see their attitudes maybe failing themselves ,in some way,by being racist,if, that is what they are being.Then you are in their company too.In fact,I think the racists,if you like,would like to hear some reasoning,that makes them feel,and that is what they are,feeling people,wherever their reasoning goes.I sustain the thought,that relationships with countries like Iran,Iraq and all the places refugees come from,must be improved.And the Australian government cannot hide behind a reluctance to be fair minded to places like Iran and Syria.As it wasn't towards Libya.In fact,in some ways,those opponents of refugees are proving the failure of policy from Lib Lab and Nat policies over a very long time.The journalism even of the ABC has been tawdry,with a sort of voice over logic, that doesn't illuminate,but brings too many generalities that obscure too many home truths,that then richochet onto the populace at large.Feeding into the debate is also the question of population,which can become survivalist.Whilst the clap trappers think,that believing anything survivalist lacks maturity.It wont.Bulk organic food supplies are anyones' possibilty.A gun in a la
Look outside the square:
06 Jun 2013 11:06:34am
Mean while back at the ranch...
Venezuela expels a "gringo spy" is the headline in one of todays msm. "Gringo" was the term used by the Venezuelan Interior Minister to describe the spy.
Bernie:
06 Jun 2013 11:07:04am
Our son married a young woman who spent six years as a child along with her family in a refugee camp in Thailand before they were given status as refugees into Australia. We have a 19 year old born in Australia grandson of Asian and Australian heritage attending Sydney University. Our daughter married the son of Maltese Immigrants. We have 2 young grandsons of Maltese Australian Heritage. We lived for 50 years in the South West Subs of Sydney. Please, please do tell me that we are NOT a nation of multi culturals. Please tell me that none of the multi cultures that exist in Australia are racially biased in any way except the likes of the white European immigrant nor indeed the white convict heritage from which I have evolved or the Iris Catholic heritage of my husband. There is not one race nor one religion that is able to stand up and declare that they are free of any sort of prejudice. It is human nature. It's all about being a good person and that is what matters. To label is cowardly. I hope our grandchildren will grow and continue to mirror our family. As long as we see fit to invade other people's lands and destroy their homes we will have those very same people eventually seeking refuge here.
Maxx:
06 Jun 2013 11:07:10am
Perhaps if politicians on all sides and the PC brigade allowed for a full and frank discussion on immigration, multiculturalism, "boat people" and population then some of the issues being raised here may well have been dealt with long ago. Suppressing open discussion of these issues has allowed them to fester away. Have the discussion now or it will only get worse, much worse.
Patrick:
06 Jun 2013 11:07:12am
At first glance, Jonathan, I thought hey: spot on. Then my thoughts returned to a friend who has lost her job, with 14.999 other public servants when Mr. Newman came into power. She is a highly qualified worker now living on NewStart with no job in sight despite her persistent efforts. She is not connected to the electricity grid anymore, relying on solar power (which she installed when she was still employed) to generate enough power for her mobile. She has a daily wash, using hot water from a kettle she boils on a wooden fire. She has no refrigerator and bicycles to the nearest shop to purchase food she cannot grow herself. In the recent floods her house on stilts pooled a mass of water underneath the house. She didn't have the first $500 her insurance company demanded to alleviate the problem, so she dug a trench herself to the lowest part in her garden for the water began to run out. She has recently borrowed from her superannuation fund and purchased two rainwater tanks, secondhand, so that she can minimise her water bill. The 457 and 485 visa scheme continues to flood Australia
with refugees, asylum seekers and students (who demand a working permit attached to their study option in Australia, stay on instead of going back to their countries to help it make a better place) while there are over 685.000 jobless and over a 100.000 homeless in Australia.
It is not that Australians hate foreigners - after all we all are foreigners, even our Aboriginal peoples who came via Java and New Guinea to Gondwanaland - it is about drawing a line in the sand.
Many of us who have lived and worked and payed taxes here for say the last 50 years, as well as first, second, third, fourth, fifth generation Australians, are stooped in poverty because of the unstoppable arrival of displaced or cunning people. There are 25.000 million people waiting to come to Australia - how many can we help?
Gone to the races:
06 Jun 2013 1:55:17pm
I hear your concerns Patrick but your assertion that "there are 25,000 million people waiting to come to Australia " is cracking me up. There are only 9,000 million people currently
on the entire planet. Do you know something we don't? Like people from other galaxies wanting to settle in Australia.
Patrick:
06 Jun 2013 9:15:42pm
Oops, one zero too many.
Peter:
06 Jun 2013 11:07:50am
What a load of leftie nonsense. Please can someone who waves the racist flag at any opportunity suggest what Australia should do regarding people seeking a better life forthemselves. How many million should we accept every year? I guess if we opened the doors without requiring a visa people would not come on boats as air fares are much cheaper and more comfortable . The reason the come by boat dummy is that they require identification to come by air. Please don't roll out the nonsense that they are fleeing for their lives to catch a plane to Indonesia. When they get on a boat they get rid of their identity.
Lawrence of Bavaria :
06 Jun 2013 11:08:14am
The two slogans concerning boat arrivals are. In the Red Corner - Labor - with: "Let's smash the people smuggler's business model" and over in the blue corner - the Coalition -yelling: "Stop the Boats."
Both won`t happen.
If Tony gets in axes will become standard equipment on people smuggler's boats. As soon as the Navy tuns up or tries to "Stop the boats" or turn them around back to Faryland - out with the axes, everybody chips in, let's "Sink the Boat." The Navy rescues. Back to square one.
Labor won't smash the people smugler's business by having camps in PNG, Nauru or in Antarctica. These camps fill up quicker than you can say "Don't risk the dangerous passage."
And then ? Nowhere to go.
Maybe attacking the problem in Indonesia ? Why not "Stop the Boats" from heading to Australia ? Tell that to the corrupt police, politicians who are happy to see the refugees go and dirt poor fishermen who only want to make a buck to feed their families. Another dead end.
Let's try - just for argument's sake - something radical.
Tear up the ancient UN refugee convention and really take control of your borders. Whoever reaches Australia from a safe, third country is refused refugee status. No exception. That goes for planes or boats. Whover slips through the net - straight back to where they came from.
Australia ups it's refugee intake to 25.000 a year (gradually increasing according to population and immigration targets) but decides itself from where these refugees are sourced.
Africa, Asia - there's a myriad of refugee camps all over the world to go to. Thus eliminating the old cue jumper argument, that people have to wait yonks to come here and boat people get preferential treatment.
Puts the "fair" back into Advance Australia Fair.
The abhorrent and costly overseas camps can be closed, Christmas Island returned to the crabs and every refugee can be housed in the community. Plugging any budget hole in a nanosecond.
The money can be spent on integratiing these new Australians - English lessons, assistance in finding proper accommodation and - a job. Let refugees work and give them self-worth. They will repay Australia in spades.
Think back to the 50ies and the Greeks, Italians, Germans etc. They had nothing, but had a go, today they are amongst the proudest Aussies.
Will the usual suspects protest ? Absolutely. From The UN down to refugee lawyers. But so will the people smugglers. There's nothing to sell anymore.
No politicising the issue anymore, no border security claptrap, no cost blow-outs.
Finally, everyone would indeed sit in in the same boat.
You Forget:
06 Jun 2013 11:12:09am
Jonathan,
Don't forget Australia also sent the army into Innisfail in 2006. That could only have been racism also...
You forget Innisfail 2006 after cyclone Larry, the Innisfail community was forced to endure having the army being "sent in" to the Innisfail community.
Maura:
06 Jun 2013 11:17:02am
There seems to be a national delusion that Australia is a wonderfully tolerant, egalitarian country when the fact is it's not. People who are about to make the most outrageously racist statements always preface them with ..."I'm not a racist, but..." We don't have the guts to stand up and say "...yes I am a racist and proud of it..." but instead hide behind the figleaf of our tolerance, compassion and generosity. The Coalition has been fear mongering about so called illegal arrivals for years, their game is to create as much fear and loathing as possible and they are certainly preaching to the converted. Joe Hockey cried crocodile tears in parliament when the Malaysian solution was being debated but he doesn't seem to have a problem with leaky boats being turned around and sent back to Indonesia (when it's safe to do so of course).
Why bother being a party to the Refugee Convention when we clearly don't want refugees in this country? I suppose it's because we can boast that we are a party to it but we don't have to fulfill our obligations because we have just signed a piece of paper, Mr Abbott has already demonstrated on more than one an occasion that his word is not his bond even though it is in writing.
Does anyone seriously believe that when the troops pull out of Afghanistan and the Taliban return to power that people won't flee from that country and try to get to a place of safety they can including Australia? On September 15 I will be expecting the boats to stop and hope that our compliant media which has tacitly supported Abbott and Morrison's dog whistling by ignoring it will hold them to their promise.
Breach of peace:
06 Jun 2013 11:18:07am
Unfortunately Australia has much to be shamed about and this is only one issue amongst many. Most australians have realised that the hype of hate, fear and prejudice has been magnified ever since 9/11 against the Muslims instead of the Islamist's as there is a big difference.
Racism is a worldwide phenomena not only within Australia but with other countries as well. There are also Asians that don't like Asians and black people who do not like other black people for many reasons whether it be from a different tribe, culture or religion, there is blatant racism that people all around the world are experiencing on a regular basis like the recent Myanmar dispossession and herding those Muslims into tents or deporting them with the Buddhist's discriminating against them by mobs, beatings and murder.
When you have multiple races, nationalities, cultures, traditions, religions in our country that is predominately a Christian nation in this case, or in the case of Myanmar it is buddhist there is always going to be a clash of ideologies and differences as that is simply human nature at its worst.
Mike:
06 Jun 2013 11:19:24am
Bright Minds and Dark Attitudes: Lower Cognitive Ability Predicts Greater Prejudice Through Right-Wing Ideology and Low Intergroup Contact (Psychological Science February 2012 vol. 23 no. 2 187-195)
"we found that lower general intelligence in childhood predicts greater racism in adulthood" and "confirmed a predictive effect of poor abstract-reasoning skills on antihomosexual prejudice, a relation partially mediated by both authoritarianism and low levels of intergroup contact".
Reinhard:
06 Jun 2013 11:19:45am
Well said Jonathon..
The awful irony that seems to be missed in all the racist rhetoric is that it vilifies the indigenous people that we displaced, and people not unlike ourselves and our forebears, who simply seek a better life here.
Tom Martyr:
06 Jun 2013 11:22:41am
The refugees can have my house, I want off this planet if this is the constant default conversation topic that determines national leadership and control of a semi prosperous country and its inhabitants.
Just get on with it one way or another.
Spence:
06 Jun 2013 11:23:56am
BRAVO!... A well written and honestly brave article. The primary cause for why this nation is turning in on itself... Fear! A nation whose people are besieged with fear can easily be controlled. The Politics of Fear simply means that you don't need to focus on good policies for the future growth of our country. Just promote fear amongst the masses and they will look to you for protection. A very powerful vote winner, especially after 9/11. Fear = Power. A deliberate political tactic. A politicians use of simple words like Terrorist, Illegal, Al-Qaida promote an overpowering fear via the media into our homes. What kind of a world we are creating for our kids... a future full of fear?
Fear should not be the clay we use to shape our children's destiny. We desperately need Politian's who stand for the greater good, who embrace and imbue courage but somehow... fear has over come us and in our confusion, we have either missed the boat or sent it back.
ribald:
06 Jun 2013 11:26:47am
Emperor Abbott must win. only then will the idiots feel his wrath and burn, while the rich fiddle with glee. what a stupid country we have become.
Clancy:
06 Jun 2013 11:27:32am
Thank you for an inspring article Jonathon.
I have been on an interesting journey with this issue. My main concern is the health of Australia's natural ecosystems; I want space for the other creatures that live here and don't want to be in an Australia that is as crowded and farmed as, say, England or China (or as crowded as I perceive those to be). Our natural systems are already overburdened by the existing population. Also, the notion of queue-jumpers and that many could be construed to be economic rather than 'true' refugees has cause me concern.
But the more I look at the global realities of large-scale movements of people, and at how much previous waves of immigrants have added to our culture, the more I think I have been looking at things from the wrong perspective. Looking at the practical consequences of our current policies reinforces this - surely we must be an international laughing stock for excising our own mainland from our immigration zone? I agree we don't want people risking their lives in small leaky boats, but locking them up in isolated detention centres and slowing processing to a crawl doesn't seem to be stopping the flow. Instead it causes great hardship and mental anguish to the people caught in the system, and given that the majority are later found to be genuine refugees I think we are just making a rod for our own back - a very expensive rod at that. Surely setting up decent processing centres in collaboration with the jumping-off countries, processing people efficiently and having the majority serve the waiting period in the community would be cheaper and save us from bigger mental health costs in the long term? I keep thinking 'how would I want a country to treat me if I was in that situation?' Certainly not like we are currently treating refugees.
Stirrer:
06 Jun 2013 11:30:03am
Jonathan, thanks for another insightful article.
All through history tyrants, would be tyrants and most politicians have used fear as a political weapon.
The sad truth is that most of us are like sheep- easily led.Philip Zimbardo's research and book 'The Lucifer effect- why good people do evil things' shows how easily people are manipulated to do evil things- Nazi Gremany was a prime example.
You have two local examples- the Howard ' we decide' beat up and the latest beat up over the asylum seeker in low security detention, The fact that he was under detention and STAYED there have been overlooked in the beat up.
Look at many of the comments in response to you article to see how easily fear spreads-they are so full of hate and vitriol-good people saying evil things.
But what is even more insidious-is the distraction the beat up of the asylum seekers and in the scheme of things, other relatively minor problems like the deficit is achieving in diverting attention from the real problems we face- a dsyfunctional and global economy and the resulting breakdwon in social cohesion.
Again-look at the comments on this forum.
Yes- politics are a reflection of our society-or should be ,which of course is why I urge you to continue putting your points of view across.
Injustice, unfairness, cruely, tyranny, servitude only triumphs when good people remain silent.
ribald:
06 Jun 2013 11:32:47am
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-06-06/us-soldier-pleads-guilty-to-murder...
explain this then, you closet racists.
Silver Fox:
06 Jun 2013 2:21:37pm
Oh sure, Ribald, you got us then.
All us closet racists would have done the same thing - for sure.
Seriously, your argument is a good example of the "tar all of us with the same hyperbolic brush" argument that is being challenged here.
Silver Fox:
06 Jun 2013 11:39:19am
What is racist about putting Australians first when it comes to jobs?
Racist? Against which race?
Isn't it the Australian governments duty to put Australians first?
Tim Hoff:
06 Jun 2013 11:39:19am
I totally disagree with Jonathon Greens opinion here.
The issue of racism in Aust is totally blown out of all proportion.
Everyone is an individual responsible for their own actions and IMHO most of the silent majority would be offended by this holier than thou rhetoric.
My life experience (in my 50th year) is that most Aussies I know will look at 'individuals' and that they don't group anyone into races or political classes. They look at the deeds of individuals and form their own judgements about their worth based upon their personality and actions regardless of the colour of their skin, political persuasion or religion. In other words they pick their own mates on their merit. If they make comments positive or negative they are commenting on the individual and not what race they belong to.
The trouble with PC is that any criticism to any minority by a member of a non minority is immediately howled down as 'racism'. Ironically, this is just as much an attack on individual freedoms as 'racism' is.
george gormley:
06 Jun 2013 11:40:17am
I agree that racism is something to be careful to avoid. I think it is quite possible for example that the King Kong movie, itself, is intended as coded racism.
However, on calling the footballer Goodes an "ape" - this could easily have been a reference to the fact that he has a beard. It would not be unreasonable to think that many men choose to shave their faces, or not, with the intention of looking of looking less or more ape-like.
Alison Cann:
06 Jun 2013 11:40:21am
Jonathan,
The great Australian shame is that a misogimist is going to be our next prime minister, all because we have a proper lady as our present prime minister. She needs a lesson in Western Sydney street fighting.
mike:
06 Jun 2013 11:41:41am
Some of us have come round to a "stop the boats" position after seeing the footage of the horrific carnage off Christmas Island a few years back. To want to stop the drownings is most certainly not a racist position. Nor is skepticism concerning the legitimacy of claims of people of any skin colour who fly to Indonesia and then get on leaky boats instead of simply flying directly to Australia to claim asylum, which is actually cheaper.
Your side is losing badly in the polls Jonathon and your response is to point the racism bone at the other side - the modern equivalent of accusations of witchcraft. How predictable and sad. The last card in the deck.
Sean M:
06 Jun 2013 11:45:36am
I wonder if Jonathan realizes he just called himself a racist?
Nabiru:
06 Jun 2013 11:46:49am
Pot Kettle black..The ABC and its moderators allow racist and ignorant racist mythology to be published in the comments area en masse.
Any topic aligned with indigenous issues is the favourite football followed by Islam.You are a big part of the problem.
Frargo:
06 Jun 2013 11:49:02am
Our media, including the ABC , report on the huge increase in boat arrivals, the unworkability of the regional response to refugees etc. Julia Gillard does not call these people illegals, Tony Abbott does. Gillard visited Western Sydney, the hub of Australia's newest arrivals from all points of the globe and they fear refugees and imported workers. Why? Is it a concern about family reunions not happening or benefits being curtailed or jobs being lost? Is it because they are doing it tough here and see these people as having an easier time or taking jobs that they could do etc? We don't know because our media mix everything up and won't allow for any intelligent discussion. Abbott and the media are in synch here.
Harquebus:
06 Jun 2013 11:52:16am
I think that the more journalists keep harping on about this subject, the more of it there is going to be.
I also think that some ought to be ashamed of themselves for dragging that girl's face through the MSM muck. 13 YEARS OLD. That is child abuse and it should have been handled a different way. Eddie McGuire is an idiot who, I never listen to anyway. Meanwhile, no one is being held to account for the billions that have and are being stolen from us or the slow destruction of our world.
Let it rest for while Jon. There are more important things right now.
I believe in the alternative, people should toughen up. Protection breeds weakness and words only hurt weaklings. Goodes, in my opinion, set a bad example.
John:
06 Jun 2013 11:55:43am
Mr Green, we do not have a "cold-hearted policy aimed at resisting the arrival of refugees from war, hunger, poverty, oppression" as you so mendaciously write.
We are an open, generous and welcoming society. But at the same time we strongly object to being manipulated like fools and incompetents by the floods of illegal migrants and the criminals who facilitate their illegal actions.
I cannot recall ever seeing a post complaining about the refugees and asylum seekers that Australia has taken direct from the UNHCR camps. Have you? No? Have you ever pondered on that dichotomy?
worrierqueen:
06 Jun 2013 11:57:01am
The fact that the Labor, Liberal and National parties are all happy to pander to racists to win votes vividly demonstrates why none of them is fit to hold office.
New world:
06 Jun 2013 11:59:31am
I think it is good thing to stop the boats.
In some 30 years from now Australia's population will be about enough for the country.
Now as other countries reach the limit of population capacity, it will be painfully obvious Australia cannot take more immigrants. So it is desirable in today's world look for a world solution for people leaving their homes for these people leaving their homes is the responsibility of their Governments.
You need to find a solution for the developing world population problem, so people do not have to leave their countries. Taking them in only puts of the long term solution that is required. You only have some 30 years to get it worked out for from then on you will need to sink the boats of the invaders.
Harquebus:
06 Jun 2013 1:48:57pm
I think it would be better to do something about the tyrants and oppressive regimes that cause people to flee in boats.
favela fella:
06 Jun 2013 2:43:19pm
I'm not sure sure about that. I think, given that we have about 20 times as much arable land per capita as China, India and Indonesia, I think it is already painfully obvious to our neighbours, at least, that Australia is desperately under-populated and in need of a much bigger annual influx of migrants and refugees. Western Sydney may be an exciting and colourful place to live, but most other parts of Australia suburbia are boring, dreary and lacking in variety in terms of people, food outlets and sports. We should be expanding our population more rapidly to give ourselves an advantage in international sport and commerce.
JaneThomas:
06 Jun 2013 11:59:57am
Thank you, Jonathan.
Frank:
06 Jun 2013 12:01:25pm
Yours Jonathan Green is just a simplistic view about a complex issue, and anyone could twist and turn an aguement to suit their motives in any case. The 457 Visa system is always going to be a political pawn while ever the headlines scream manufacturing industry closure and unemployment consequences. What I find intollerable, is Governments using unemployment to suit their agenda's, yet nothing is done to stop the tens of thousands of New Zealand citizens who come here without resrictions poaching Australian jobs. In the electorate of "Brand" it is beyond being a joke, with schools, housing, hospitals and all under pressure from this influx, yet it goes on unabated. So if 457 visa's and que jumping so called refugees are a political employment issue, then so should stopping the "special visa" protection New Zealanders have. As for racial tones, I'm sick of everything and anything Australians do to protect their own culture and livelihoods being branded as racist. I'm a 5th generation (and some) Australian and the culture I grew up in was won with blood sweat and tears, and any threat to that (whether it be from Islamic refugees or any other) is an insult to my forebears. If Politicians have my Australian interests in mind in their political motives, then they have my support. What LABOR has done under Rudd and Gillard is inexcusably rotten to the core, and they (not I) should be ashamed of themselves.
Tony P Grant:
06 Jun 2013 12:10:47pm
There is Abbott who when in government (Howard) went to war and disturbed the nests...and guess what "as they started the problem...he now claims he'll cure the problem"?
On this very front page of the ABC we have Abbott "steely eyed" a man of conviction...in smaller font we are putting "Asylum seeker in side" that is in our national cricket side?
Abbott talks a "game" but never played first grade rugby (University of Sydney) and all indicators are that neighbouring nations like Indonesia will not assist? Does anybody honestly think this "timely question from Murdoch Inc journalists" has any substance...the question with answer in less than 15 seconds?
That is Abbott's support network in action...no thought just what a "simple public" want to read?
Except when we need spinners in our national side...as long as he (Fawad Ahmed) doesn't get to play against Abbott place of birth?
The race to the bottom is finished Abbott by the length of the straight at Flemington!
STB:
06 Jun 2013 12:19:55pm
Your article forgets to mention the fact that the public is sick and tired of the thought police of political correctness and the need to always watch what you say and feel.
So they re-package their thoughts on "allowing their standard of living to slide to that of Third World levels" by stopping those who would like to work for $2/hr from entering Australia by any means at their disposal.
Any politician who has even the slightest level of sensitivity to what people "really' feel will package their policies to meet that need.
Dasha:
06 Jun 2013 12:20:57pm
When a white Anglo-Saxon person is called " a white trash pig" by a colored person, where are the outraged righteous racism protesters?
Every little bits of utterance by rude and ignorant people have rapidly been elevated to anti-racism war by the moral police - it is so boring and so false.
In terms of asylum seekers - 42,000 arrivals in short few years and most of them have no ID papers. The case of the Egyptian man is only the tip of iceberg. The public has every right to be concerned - we don't want bombing and stabbing terrorism acts occurring on Australian soil.
Polysemantic Pete:
06 Jun 2013 12:21:26pm
In the mid-2000's Carmen Lawrence wrote an excellent book titled "Fear and Politics" which argues that many politicians deliberately play on our fears because they see that as a means of displaying 'leadership' and 'power'. They want us to believe they are protecting us from a multitude of evils. in the introduction, Carmen quotes H. L. Mencken who noted "(t)he whole aim of practical politics is to keep the populace alarmed by menacing it with an endless series of hobgoblins, all of them imaginary."
When it comes to how our current crop of politicians play the game, there is more truth in that book today than whenit was first published. I wish some of them would take time to read it.
JakartaJaap:
06 Jun 2013 12:23:33pm
What an appalling, embarrassing country Australia has become that a Jonathon Green is paid by the tax-payer and gets a free kick any time he wants to vent his hatreds and bigotries on one of the the Party's propaganda organs. Australia, you stink! Power to the People and kick the knob jockeys, tossers and poodlefakers out on the Glorious Day in September!
mr shark:
06 Jun 2013 7:03:10pm
jakartajaap
What an appalling, embarrassing country Australia has become that we have citizens with attitudes and prejudices like yours who are prepared to put them on display under the anonymity of the internet. pretty pathetic stuff dude.
Ozchucky:
06 Jun 2013 12:27:14pm
Thank you Johnathan,
Politicians should appeal the best of the Australian character. Those that play the race card appeal to the worst.
After a few years of an Abbott government, TA will still be trying stop the boats; leaving Darwin, Broome and Port Hedland with Australian refugees headed for Indonesia, Malaysia and Sri Lanka.
Colmery:
06 Jun 2013 12:35:02pm
We are indeed the clay politics is formed from. However, among us there are those who would mould that clay, and clearly there are many of us who are too readily influenced by them.
To have any effect on the way the media presents us our politics or the way politicians pose for their cameras, we need to think through the fundamental human behaviour that makes the media-politico complex the way it is. At the moment the media shows no inclination whatever to do that. A small number of politicians will privately agree that change is needed, however, those who seek political advantage cannot be allowed to dictate how the will of the herd is best determined.
The ideals proposed by Mr Green are worthy ones, however, the ideal of a working democracy must usurp all others because it creates the authority to impose the limits that implement ideals.
It seems obvious that on average Australians are pretty ?average? humans. Indeed our proud claims of being multi-racial make that pretty much a given. However, that does not mean we cannot have a more effective system of government. The ideal of democracy didn?t arise from average minds, indeed very little of what advanced humanity had its genesis in average minds. We rely on our elite minds just as we rely on elites for the best in every sphere of activity. This co-operative element of humanity is the key to our success as a species.
The problem at the heart of what admirably fires up Mr Green is the criminal indifference of our elite minds. Where is their leadership? Why are they not awake at night trying to find ways to communicate wisdom in ways we in the herd will find attractive? Why are they not hammering the media to be heard?
I think they are gutless.
Tiger:
06 Jun 2013 12:35:24pm
Hi Jonathon
I am going to fumble at this so give me a little latitude. I think you are mixing two things up here.
The Goodes / McGuire issue is racism pure and simple.
The 'illegal immigrant' issue is a cultural issue and they are getting hammered as they are something you can point to and say "there the problem".
And the problem, I think, for some/many/lots (who knows) is the changing face of Australia into a multi cultural society. The idea of a mixed society means different things to different people. Some take it to mean we are all thrown in a big pot, mixed around and out comes a soup of many colours. Others, think it is a majority of people from a 'western background' with a spattering (awful word I know) of other cultures.
The push back in western sydney is simple. I grew up there until 1974 and when I go back it has changed completely from what it was. Some hark for 1974, some like what they have now and some may want to go back a bit. If you live in Western Sydney you see the actual face of MC and much of that is not what the people of western sydney would have expected back 30yrs ago and one has to admit some cultures have recreated suburbs where behaviours reflect what they tried to leave in the first place.
Is it racist to define how we want our country to be? Has this question actually been asked/defined?
The answer is not out there so those dissatisified with what we have now have found the scapegoats - those nasty people that dont form a queue and get asked to come in. Our pollies reflect what there constituants say.
cheers
tsj:
06 Jun 2013 12:35:32pm
Perhaps most worrying, is the fact that this is one of the key platforms upon which the Liberals, led by Tony Abbott have decided to stand for election.
Are we to make of this that the LNP are intent on winning votes based on racist sentiment? I t seems so far that their only intention is to raise the spectre of fear and negativity about the current Labor government, who openly share a more sensitive and sympathetic view of newcomers to our great country. We seem to forget that we are a multicultural society (already) and have always been this way -- ever since the first white man set foot in Botany Bay. Grow up Australia and get real!
the bolter:
06 Jun 2013 12:35:48pm
a good article which will be dismissed by those who fail to think or understand , speaking of which dear tony has announced today via foot in mouth that he will stop the boats in his first term. tony has promised aust he will serve one term and then be gone aka as a liar crucified by his spin mates mr jones etc for lying.
Esteban:
06 Jun 2013 12:40:33pm
It is getting a bit crowded on the high moral ground so I welcome this "race to the top" so we can shake a few off and give me more room to shine.
Barj:
06 Jun 2013 12:40:51pm
Thank you Jonathan Green for looking at the big picture but unfortunately it is not just our political game but almost all of the thoughts and actions of a great many, if not the majority of our citizens that is ruled by hate, fear and prejudice.
The current outburst of discrimination against immigrants was revved up by John Howard in his famous we will decide who comes to this country speech in 2001 in which I cannot remember him attributing the same rights to the Aboriginals who perhaps were the only Australians who would have been perfectly justified in voicing that kind of righteous indignation when they were invaded by hoards of British immigrants on boats, not small, leaky boats carrying a few dozen refugees but large ships carrying hundreds of the most undesirable ex inhabitants of English jails.
Do you think the invasion of this country by our own British ancestors and our convict past just might be at the heart of our cold hearted policy of resisting the refugees who come to our shores?
Of course, I think there probably might have been a queue when the convicts were chosen to come here but I also think that queue would have been ranked so that the worst offenders were right at the top and the first to be chosen for the boats. But the origins of xenophobia goes back much further, to our primeval past and I seriously doubt that it is anything as innocent as animal behavior if the behavior of my dog and the majority of other dogs I have known or seen displaying natural instincts is typical of animal behavior. When two dogs meet for the first time, they usually sniff each other out then react accordingly. Every new dog encountered is judged on merit and the dog on the home ground only protects his territory against the strange dog if the stranger is judged to be unfriendly. But the same dog will bark first and only sniff and judge on merit after the warning has been made when an unknown human approaches.
Hate and prejudice are human instincts which I believe are not only primitive but primeval, not the natural ones based on self protection that we find in other animals but unnatural ones based , as far as I can see, on quilt. That quilt can be personal. How many, if any, of us are free from personal guilt? Or it can be historical quilt which in our white society is far too obvious to be ignored.
EvilPundit:
06 Jun 2013 12:41:19pm
Oh, do grow up please.
Nobody outside the far-left circlejerk buys this nonsense.
If asylum seeker advocates want to make any headway, they'll have to drop the "racism" nonsense, and address the real issues. Not much danger of that, though - abusing the opposition is easier than actually thinking about an issue.
Robyn:
06 Jun 2013 12:42:49pm
So much misinformation in many of the comments.
An asylum seeker becomes a refugee when the claims for asylum are accepted, for example. It is a process.
Unlike many of the commentors here, I live with the difficulties every day. I fought to have my family come home.
It makes me cry.
Robyn
Author of Love versus Goliath
Patrick:
06 Jun 2013 4:03:00pm
And it makes my friend cry to loose her house because on NewStart she can no longer afford to service the loan involved, while refugees get a dwelling + heating provided, as well as NewStart and other goodies.
Hubert:
06 Jun 2013 12:43:26pm
Great article Jonathan.
Thank you for pointing out the hypocracy evident in the MSM, and in our nation's political discourse.
I have been saddened greatly by Labor's willingness to follow the opposition in denigrating those who need our help most. This stinks of vote chasing taking precedence over humanitarianism.
Perhaps, just perhaps, we''ll see Labor change their tune in the lead up to the election, it may just save them from defeat.
Amethyst:
06 Jun 2013 12:43:52pm
Tolerance and acceptance are two qualities we would like to instil in people however we all have our in-built prejudices and discriminations. For me, to keep being hit over the head about how xenophobic and racist Australians, is building my prejudice towards the many commentators on this issue.
castlenau:
06 Jun 2013 12:47:32pm
Thanks for the reminder that scratch the skin of any white Australian and you'll finds degrees of racism. I remember during the Hawke years there was a proposal to bring in anti-racist legislation and the argument against was it would send the problem underground. At the time I thought that spurious - surely any issue is resolved with discussion. There should be more of this type of writing, talking and media attention about just how racist we are - where's the media on this?
Alongside that the wrong questions are being asked. Why is the Department of Immigration taking so long to process these people - just exactly what do they do all day when they say those refugees offshore will take 5 years to process? Surely that is fuelling the anger of all Australians, not to mention increasing the amount of mental problems for those awaiting processing. Is this a deliberate policy to create wedge politics by both political parties?
There was a radio discussion last week on refugees and an asylum seeker in detention was interviewed. She stated that if she had known just how hard it would be to live in Australia and be processed she would never have got on a boat. I ask if this is the case, how many leaflets in the languages of the asylum seekers sitting in Indonesia and awaiting a boat, have been distributed, detailing the process they will have to go through. It's not as if the Indonesian government can't help in identifying where the refuges are living. Seems like a simple solution to me, however I guess those in Immigration who cannot process anyone under 5 years, are too busy to think of such a practical process!
lance:
06 Jun 2013 12:53:02pm
This scaremongering nonsense is a legacy from the Horrid Howard Years where we were
desensitized to the --how low can a nation go-- policies-- of the dirty tricks department run from the dark bunker of Kirribbilli house
Alas if the polls are not a Murdoch (remember Obama ) fabrication
looks like the lights in that dark bunker room are going to be glowing brightly once more
Think first...:
06 Jun 2013 12:56:04pm
I do enjoy the way the "enlightened" lecture about how we as Australians need to be more accepting - assuming that every other country in the world accepts with open arms, refugees crossing their borders.
Wake up - this is not just an issue for Australia. In Britain, France and Spain there has been a much increased level of nationalism in recent times - where people are rallying against the "tide of refugees and foreigners." Ever heard of that small group the "English Defence League" Have you ever been to Texas and seen how the border with Mexico is patrolled? Have you ever tried to enter China without a valid visa (have you tried to get a visa to enter China - I have and its not easy). Even Germany is not immune to the keep the refugees out approach - however, they experienced the trend sooner with people arriving from Eastern Europe following the collapse of the Soviet Union.
And lets not forget, if these people weren't persecuted because of their race or religion in their country of origin, they wouldn't be fleeing in the first place.
I think the enlightened need to separate the border protection debtate from the debate about racism. Being able to protect your borders and stop people arriving without authorisation is a key plank of national security. If we are simply going to allow people to arrive, why require anyone to have a Visa before arriving in this country? Why have immigration checks at the airports? Why even bother with an immigration department if we are simply going to allow or encourage anyone who can get here to come?
The ability to control the border and ensure national security is one issue. Increasing our refugee intake (which I think we should) is an entirely different debate.
Ironically, I think if less people arrived in an authorised manner by boat, there would probably be the political will for and public acceptance of an increased refugee intake.
Rene:
06 Jun 2013 12:56:15pm
Jonathan,
Your article labels every one that has an opposing view to yours as Racist.
The majority of Australians are not racist, they do not care what race, colour or creed people are, they just object to Illegals circumnavigating our Immigration Act by paying thousands of dollars to get on boats and arriving without the documentation that enabled them to get on planes to arrive in Indonesia.
By destroying their documentation they have already proven that they have no regard for the Australian people, they can spin any story they like and be accepted by our inefficient Immigration department who really do not know who that person really is. i.e. Captain Emad, whose family claimed asylum under false pretences and are still here on our welfare, when are they going to be deported?
Gillard and her cronies are responsible for the attitudes for some Australians for their Open Door policies which are not fair to those genuine refugees sitting in Refugee camps for years and years. Australians call a Spade a Spade and when they see that they are being rorted, they object!! Nothing racist about that at all.
Ita:
06 Jun 2013 3:53:02pm
Rene, the Immigration Department is run (overwhelmingly) by former refugees/asylum seekers/former students. Jobs entrenched Australians would dearly have.
dasher:
06 Jun 2013 1:02:02pm
Jonathan as someone who has lived in the UK, Canada and the USA for extended periods, fear not ole son we are not travelling too badly. It may comes as a surprise for you to learn that society will always throw up the odd racist however diligent you may be. Many (like McGuire and the 13 girl in the Goodes case) may be guilty of bad taste but not racism. By screeching racism the left dilute the efforts of those who trying to deal subject sensibly. Interestingly the people who cried racism in the Goodes case are silent about widespread child abuse and violence in aboriginal communities...now there's something to get passionate about folks. Regarding asylum seekers, the average Australian is not a racist on this issue, they are realists. They know that people who pay large sums to get here and discard their papers to avoid the authorities knowing the truth about them are in the main, economic migrants abusing our goodwill...the bureaucracy gives them the benefit of the doubt in most cases, because we are a soft touch. This hand wring about racism is similar to the nonsense on the misogyny tactic of the Government, it got to the stage where referring to particular women as people of calibre - which in my experience in all English speaking countries above is a compliment - the prominent person who used the term was labelled a misogynist...barking mad!. Yes we should try to eliminate racism from our society but the left manage to stir the pot through their silliness rather than pour oil on the waters.
Sir Liberal:
06 Jun 2013 1:02:20pm
Ah! The good old ABC. Takes our money and throws nasty vicious smears back at the people who pay for it.
You can tell we're all unrepentant racists by the number of people who are desperately risking life and limb to come here.
To quote Laurie Ferguson : "You are a sad badly informed halfwit. Keep off the turps"
Kevin Cobley:
06 Jun 2013 1:03:25pm
Government should have stopped the boat Abbott was on, when he was an "economic refugee, during the period of the UK's industrial decline", his family had no other serious reasons for emigration, didn't face death or persecution just a lower living standard.
gaznazdiak:
06 Jun 2013 1:04:56pm
As much as I have always detested John Howard and the Liberal Party, I have to agree with the statement "we will decide who comes to this country and the circumstances in which they come". We have the right to decide who comes into our houses and how they enter so why not our country? If a hungry homeless person came to your door and asked for food, most people would help them out, but if that same homeless person snuck in the back door and raided the fridge most people would call the police and have them locked up: what's the real difference.
Huboo:
06 Jun 2013 1:06:13pm
Is it racism that is really the problem, or is it our bigotry showing through? I don't consider myself a racist, but I will admit to disliking other cultures. The difference is that the colour of a persons skin does not define my dislike of another culture. There are many cultural norms in Australia, much of it white Australian culture, that I prefer not to be associated with. As an example, I do not drink so I mainly don't have anything to do where this culture is evident.
For various reasons every person on the planet looks down on anothers culture, irrespective of the colour of that persons skin. If we Australians were to honestly list all the people we don't like in Australia, for whatever reason, I would bet that list would name a lot individual white people, while mostly only mentioning races and religions of those of a different skin colour.
Racism is only a small part of an individuals inherent bigotry. It is the bigotry that we all have plenty of - regardless of our skin colour or religion. How we express it and in turn react to it makes all the difference.
Gr8Ape:
06 Jun 2013 1:13:34pm
But what is the underlying source of this fear? If everybody was doing well and content with their lives then I suspect the angst about refugees would largely dissipate.
I rather nievely assumed that progress in a national sense would be measured by increasing levels of comfort. Now, is the apparent increase in fear a result of things going backwards for the average Australian, or has it been artificially fostered?
Maybe there's such a thing as there being too much competition and having too many 'inducements' to compete. The weakest are always the first victims in such scenarios.
Andrew Thomas:
06 Jun 2013 1:14:15pm
"Our twin capacity to tolerate a political discussion that fixes on stopping the boats and Aussie jobs while generating storms of righteous indignation over high-profile instances of racial abuse and denigration"
I put forward that one requires little more than lip service, whilst the other makes most Australians feel like they might loose something. Add a little pressure, and the racist in us is all to apparent.
Jade:
06 Jun 2013 1:15:35pm
I got as far as the second paragraph when I had to go back and see who had written this very biased piece. What a joke-a reporter who seems hell bent on the subject of racism of which he is trying to hide behind a personal opinion.
Articles like this are inflammatory.
Call me a racist or whatever you want, but going to the very core of this topic I am deeply concerned that Australia's borders are not protected and Gillard just seems to hide her head in the sand and has given up.
Am sick of the baby-boomers being reported as being a group of people that Australia says has not enough money for their their retirement pension and what a drain they'll be on the next generation financially. Yes-the very same people who have paid taxes all their lives-yet somehow we seem to be able to afford the thousands of illegal migrants entering our country and pay them at the same time, as well as providing food, shelter, medical, dental. This has got to be stopped. I shudder as this government seems to have no idea what this will mean for the next generation. Middle-class Australia are mostly one pay-packet away from being homeless and shame on Gillard for not looking after our own first. Tony, all you have to do is fix our border security and you get my vote as well as thousands of others.
barsnax:
06 Jun 2013 1:15:47pm
Julia Gillard's defeat is assured at the next election, unless every bookie and poll in the world is wrong.
At the very least she should resign now and let her unfortunate heir or heiress have a shot of limiting the damage.
Border control and asylum seeker policy seem to be one of the major policy blunders from Gillard.
EddyC:
06 Jun 2013 1:17:13pm
Totally agree. Australia (as most societies) has a strong undercurrent of racism. Unlike some societies, this attitude has never really been questions. It has certainly been promoted by successive governments - Howard, Gillard and Abbott (they are beneath contempt on this issue). The reality is that we get the government we deserve and never the government we want because there is a gulf between what we are and what we would like to be thought of. If the comments from Morrison, Brandis and Abetz are anything to go by, we are likely to have another decade of regressive and retarded social degredation where we will be seen as the lowest common denominator as a society, culture and country by pretty much everyone who has a humanitarian bone in their body. If you don't get it, I don't have any faith in this current crop of society. I can only hope that the next cohort of Australians to come through are much more intelligent.
Guber:
06 Jun 2013 1:17:49pm
NT intervention a disaster?
Just goes to show, government's role can not extend to saving people from themselves.
Big Ben:
06 Jun 2013 1:21:20pm
Thank you Jonathan for a full and frank offering.
Sometimes I am ashamed to be an Australian. I love my country but I fear for where we are headed. The very fact that we come from a migrant heritage appears lost on many.
The hate feeding the hate was palpable this morning as I watched Mr Abbott on ABC 24 licking the voting pencils of his growing consistency; absolutely heartbreaking.
You cannot help but wonder if Plato was correct when he presented us with his views on wise leadership.
ScottBE:
06 Jun 2013 1:23:05pm
I heartily agree with you Jonathan... Our society has become just what you describe. But of course it wasn't always this way.
In the mid-sixties we had an awakening of the multicultural nature of our society. We had an awakening of the rights of aboriginal Aus and an emergence of how refugees and immigrants were seeing the racism in us. Then came Mr Whitlam and Al Grassby and both these populations began to receive the recognition they deserved.
By the time of the boat arrivals from Vietnam during the Fraser years we had developed compassion and tolerance of difference. Then under Hawke and Keating we finally began to celebrate the values that multiculturalism had brought us.
Australia by the early nineties had a real enjoyment of multicultural diversity and tolerance was positively blooming. These were halcyon days when you could go to Darling Harbour to a beautiful, musical and colourful celebration of all cultures mixing peacefully together, sharing values and foods. Do you all forget how peaceful and buoyant was our culture in those days?
Then came Mr Howard with a desperation to gain a second term and a red-head with hate in her heart... and finally your quote of "We will decide..."
The shame and disgrace we bought with that election has made this mess we presently experience.
Lets identify the real cause of this disease we now have. It was political ambition that drove this appalling xenophobia. Like all anxieties it was irrational and reactive. But Mr Howard won that election by stirring hatred and fear.
Lets keep this subject in context and recognise the greedy ambition - political ambition - which changed Australia from the more peaceful harmonious place it was to the paranoid and brutal place it has become. A place where the Cronulla rioters can be inspired by a feral DJ to acts of violence. A place where xenophobic discord thrives in Parliament House and in the kitchen.
KK:
07 Jun 2013 8:34:17am
'Shame and disgrace'... Not really. We showed that we run this country, not the UN and not people smugglers. We still took in 13,500 refugees a year, something the boat people advocates seem to forget.
Clancy:
06 Jun 2013 1:29:04pm
According to a news story on the main ABC page, 22,000 people have arrived by boat since July last year. Sounded a lot until I read that about 127,500 'settlers' arrived last year (see page at http://www.humanrights.gov.au/publications/2012-face-facts-chapter-2#Hea... ), so that's a bit less than 1 in 5 immigrants - not so much. We had twice as many come under the family reunion plan and twice as may under the skilled migration plan. I really think it 's time we got over ourselves and recognise that you can't stop big movements of people, better to control it gracefully.
frangipani:
06 Jun 2013 2:08:11pm
You can't stop big movements of people? Hmm. The number of asylum seekers in the western world generally increased by 8% last year; in Australia, it increased by 37%. Seems like Europe, Canada and the US did pretty much stop the big movements....
Jimmy Necktie:
06 Jun 2013 2:46:33pm
I like that word Clancy. Grace.
Not much of it around these days though.
KK:
07 Jun 2013 8:31:01am
Migrants don't require years of welfare, housing, etc when they arrive. They also can't just roll up whenever and wherever they like.
And controlling is what border protection is all about. Control is what we don't have at the moment.
fidel:
06 Jun 2013 1:32:17pm
Hello Jonahan,
Just a short note to say that I am glad that I was not born to be a refugee, ("illegal") sailing on a suspect ship, [boat], through cyclone prone seas to an unwelcoming, bureaucratic shoreline.
Instead, I was born an Australian citizen, and gained benefit from what that implied, [education, employment, superannuation, healthcare, and middle class wealth]
And I made no effort to ensure my Australian citizenship. My parents looked after all of those concerns.
Why could not these unfortunate people sailing on dangerous seas, looking for a safe harbour for their families, have been more careful in choosing their parents.
Guber:
06 Jun 2013 4:47:19pm
Fidel,
Life isn't fare.
Repeat whenever a silly leftwing urge befuddles you.
MJMI:
06 Jun 2013 1:33:04pm
Thank you Jonathan. Very well said.
I work on an AusAID project in SE Asia. I am so disillusioned with Australian politics that I had decided I would not bother to vote this September, although I made big efforts to do so in 2007 and 2010. But last night I was talking with another Aussie ex-pat who said he had just decided that he would vote this September. The reason? The declared intention of Pauline Hanson to enter the election.
This is said to be the Asian century and Asian is said to be where Australia's interests lie. China, Indonesia and Japan are big trading partners with huge potential and other smaller countries are also entering business partnerships with Australia.
My ex-pat friend recalled the damage amongst Australia's immediate neighbours done by Pauline Hanson's rise. And by John Howard's "we will decide who comes to this country and the circumstances in which they come".
Australia Network news has beamed into my living room all "the ugly realities of Australian democracy". I am ashamed that my country has become a nation of xenophobes, including among those whose families have been recent generation immigrants. Does no-one care how rude we are to neighbours?
Lee Kuan Yew was right with his prediction that Australia would become the poor white trash of Asia. We're there already.
frangipani:
06 Jun 2013 2:06:17pm
There is scarcely a country in the world that would argue with the concept of "we will decide who comes to this country and the circumstances in which they come." The Chinese and Japanese both have quite stringent visa and residence requirements, and would be dumbfounded by any suggestion that their requirements were insulting to other countries.
There is nothing inconsistent in wanting to have good trade relationships with our neighbours, while wanting at the same time to exercise firm control of our visitor and migrant entries. And no, it's not xenophobic: it would only be xenophobic if we refused to allow Asians to access our education visas, work visas or migrant visas. As for Pauline Hanson, well, in this country, even the great unwashed are allowed to run for office. That's the price we have to pay for having a democracy.
the other Gordon:
06 Jun 2013 2:31:14pm
I think it is ironic that you disparage supposed Australian xenophobia and rudeness to other nations by quoting and espousing a racist and rude tag from a foreign authoritarian right wing politician.
AGB:
06 Jun 2013 4:58:01pm
Lee Kuan Yew?..
That's right, he's the one who used to bleat about human rights being relative, rather than universal, to justify all sorts of abuses.
You're just great judge of character, aren't you.
KK:
06 Jun 2013 5:53:52pm
So these SE Asian countries you work in don't subscribe to the belief that they decide who arrives on their shores? I doubt it.
Australia is the most welcoming country of different cultures and religions in the entire region and if you think we are poor white trash then why are all the boat people trying to get here rather than anywhere else in SE Asia?
J Edgar Hoover:
06 Jun 2013 10:57:49pm
Rude to our neighbours!!
Well that tells me that you are living in the land of the naive. Rude ! rudeness is that all you accuse the collective Australian populace of being, rude!
This tells me that your viewpoints are informed by your highminded ideologies, and have not been tempered by the hard truths of on the ground reality.
It is a fact that there are some, indeed more than some, amongst those who would call the Australian landmass home, whose publicly stated agenda is a global caliphate. 700 of these people gathered in Sydney to declare their intention of wanting to form a global religious state. There have also been declarations of these types to "take Britain" to "overtake the US". On public television in multicultural discussions I have heard some of these people express that "we have no culture". What an intriguing view.
Facts. Australian families of soldiers who have died in Afghanistan have received letters from these people condemning their now dead son who died in Australian uniform. Some of these types practise their law, within our country, denying our law. Some of these people genitally mutilate their young females. Some of these people gather to send young people overseas to conflict zones for the express purpose of militant preparation. Some have held posters in public wanting to cut off heads. Bookshops hold rallies exhorting radical forms of their belief system. Overseas, solders have been hacked to death in the streets of their own capital. Bombings, train wrecks. Do I need to go on. These are facts. These are perpetrated by some members of these groups, who also want to live in this country. Their medieval mentality should not be dismissed as merely simple. It is a very threat to our lives. We deny under the guise of political correctness to our peril.
Loyalty is to the belief system. The host nation is merely a form of sustenance. No loyalty required.
We would be naive in the extreme if the only thing we want to do, is not to be rude. Wake up, wake up now, and realize the facts for what they are. Amongst those who legitimately seek asylum, are those who seek their own agenda, and that agenda does not include being part of the nation to which they have come.
The problem isnt racism, the problem is political correctness which cripples people from expressing their own view.
Very concerned Australian.
John:
07 Jun 2013 8:59:47am
If you work in, and presumably understand, SE-Asia then why don't you try getting on a people smuggler boat and ask to be taken to Singapore or Japan, just to give a couple of examples?
You'll be back where you started before you've taken a second breath.
Rodje:
06 Jun 2013 1:42:59pm
"What else is at the heart of the bipartisan embrace of our cold-hearted policy aimed at resisting the arrival of refugees from war, hunger, poverty, oppression and simple fear?"
I don't think Australians mind so much the arrival of people of this description. It's probably more that we do not believe these are the people arriving on the boats. People escaping hunger and poverty, for example, don't first jump on a commercial jet to Indonesia and then produce tens of thousands of dollars in cash to board a boat which will enable them to knowingly illegally enter our country.
No - we see people who seek any easy route to our land of milk and free welfare. A land where they do not need to work and can live on welfare at a much higher standard than in their own country. This is welfare they have not earned. And these seem generally to be people who are least likely to fight for their own country, while the rest of the world provides young men and women to do that job and die for them.
Are these really the people we would approve to come and live here. I don't think we believe for one minute that the majority of these people are fleeing oppression - they are finding a cheats way into our pantry.
For those who are genuine refrugees - welcome. But only if you are genuine. If you are seeking a dishonest entry - then spare a thought for the genuine one's who do not have your resources to cheat a weak and media compliant government. But the cheaters don't spare a thought - they are greedy and fundamentally dishonest. Let's be clear, these are not the Vietnamese boat people of the 70's - who were genuine, honest, hard working, decent people and are an ornament of our society.
Jonathon - please get real!
Jimmy Necktie:
06 Jun 2013 1:44:32pm
I've almost stoped commenting on this subject. The regular posters are so polarised that a moderate like me gets shouted down by both sides it seems.
I'm also sick of the same old half-truths and no-truths being swatted back and forth by both sides. Many of you are sheep. Think for yourselves, investigate for your selves, listen to opposing views. Think.
There is a problem. It is a difficult one and it will be expensive and take a long time to fix. Accept that. Stop your noise, listen to each other and get on with working together. Stop acting like spoiled babies.
Stirrer:
06 Jun 2013 1:49:08pm
And while we engage in discussing the bigger things of life like asylum seekers the players in the gobal economy engage in more of what has brought us undone.
To quote from the Daily Reckoning Australia this morning.
'The shadow banking system uses Treasuries as money substitutes. Repos (repurchase agreements) are pretty simple. A 'borrower' puts up securites as collateral and receives cash from a 'lender' in exchange for an agreement to repurchase the securities at a later date. Usually the securities are U.S Treasuries or something liquid that can be easily disposed of in a default. But here is where it get interesting.Since the repo lender owns a highly liquid security, the lender can do another repo with it,raising more cash to play with"
In other words, more of the securitisation which stuffed up the global economy?
Reminds me of the outfit prior to the 1987 share crash selling the same shares two or three times.
Rome burns while the people fiddle. What damn idiots we are.
ru4real:
06 Jun 2013 1:49:36pm
Buddhists have notions of 'equanimity', 'altruism' and 'bodhicitta' which embrace the interdependency of all life forms, and developing a capacity for 'loving kindness' which exchanges 'self' for 'other'.
Christians have the golden rule of doing unto others as they would do unto you.
Most morality is based on consideration of others - their feelings, their circumstances, and their 'rights' to peaceful coexistence.
Whatever approach to life you adopt, logic says that without consideration of others, selfish concerns grow, perhaps limitlessly, out of control. At the extreme, self-interest can perhaps justify the thought 'my rights are greater than all others'.
When 'others' take steps to preserve their own lives (in instances of war, famine) and move to places which they imagine may be safer, these people suddenly become 'asylum seekers', 'refugees', 'illegal immigrants' and so on, depending on definitions under UNHRC and/or national laws.
Australia has signed the UNHRC convention on refugees: our government is obliged to follow protocols set under this international legal document. Yet both sides of politics continue to muddy the waters as obligations are put into practice, instead of taking a bipartisan approach to accepting responsibilities towards these 'others' who approach or arrive on our shores.
If this 'lucky country' suddenly experienced the sorts of horrific conditions which affect many other nations, we'd probably see many Australians fleeing to other places for safety.
Not every Australian has arrived here from war zones, or from famine ravaged states, but a significant number have either first hand experiences, or have relatives or friends who've suffered fear, pain and indignities, to the extent that they took the risk of leaving their birth-places.
Australia is only too willing to look for 'business people' and 'skilled workers' from overseas: migration levels have risen and fallen, and governments have set guidelines for 'orderly processes' to 'limit numbers' of arrivals.
With the world's population growing so fast, and many 'disorderly' events (war, natural disasters, crop failures etc.) movements of people is likely to continue to grow.
Racism and xenophobia become endemic when national leaders ignore realities. Rhetoric about 'stopping boats' is unhelpful and unrealistic. Working with other countries, particularly Indonesia, is more likely to produce more humane processes and outcomes which alleviate the perilous predicament faced by millions of 'others' 'over there'.
JOP:
06 Jun 2013 1:50:04pm
I wouldn't want to be in the shoes of the first Navy captain who reports that he doesn't consider a boat seaworthy enough to be towed back to Indonesia... Somehow I don't think Mr Abbott and Co will be sympathetic to that view, given their expert knowledge on all things martime, of course.
KK:
07 Jun 2013 7:08:09am
If it isn't sea worthy how did it get to where it is in the first place?
Gordon:
06 Jun 2013 1:52:08pm
"What else other than a subtle racist underlay could have enabled the quickly imposed apartheid of the NT intervention"? asks Jonathon. How about a simple desire to fix a problem that had patently defeated previous well-meaning efforts and was, and is, condemning a generation of Aboriginal children to fates just as bad as the institutionalised racism of the stolen generation era.
The intervention is questionable as being politically motivated, simplistic, unsubtle, any many other words that can apply to government social policies of every stripe. But I don't buy a racist intent. An actual racist would have allowed the dire situation to continue unaddressed until there were no more aboriginal children at all.
By calling "racism" in what should be a civil debate about the best way to address Aboriginal disadvantage you do the very thing you accuse others of: dog-whistle politics and raising the temperature for no benefit.
PTom:
06 Jun 2013 1:55:39pm
Western Sydney is more multicultured then many other parts of Australia yet for some reason people who never vist here think we a racist (against who).
The problem of the West is not racism or fear it is angry.
Why such angry is easy to see when you sit in traffic for 1 hour to travel 20km, stand on crowd bus or train for 30 minutes or can't go anywhere on weekends beacuse of no service. Then we hear our neighbours are not getting jobs because we are not skilled (yet companies don't train) but instead bring in more people on 457.
Then all the governments says it can't improve service but wants to charge you more.
Then we hear/see people crossing our borders so we get angry as it feels like increase our burden, be it workers arriving on 457 cutting our wages and condition or refugee needing tax payers support.
punch:
06 Jun 2013 1:56:01pm
I am not bothered by the increased boat arrivals because I understand why asylum seekers want to seek safety in Australia and the chance of a better life and what a fabulous country to choose. I also know the vast majority who do manage to stay in Australia realise their fortune and become high contributors to our society. They are a positive addition to our communities in many, many ways.
As Australia continues to successfully absorb more people from all over the world; Australians will grow, learn and accept new cultures and feel less threatened. Right now Sydney is an exciting, rhythmic melting pot of different cultures and is becoming like New York - one of the worlds greatest cities - built on migration and a shining example of excellence.
Which brings me to racism expressed at every available moment by Tony Abbotts fear-mongering LNP. The disgusting Scott Morrison should be voted out of office for his blatant racism and mendacity. It actually distresses me that people of such low quality like Abbott, Morrison, Brandis, Abetz, Bishop, Pyne, Dutton and the rest are in any position of power. Since the formation of our hung parliament, they have undermined anything decent and diminished our democracy.
I've observed them all sneering and abusing our PM during question time. Their collective villification of our PM Julia Gillard and anyone else who stand between them and power for powers sake. Its one of the lowest points in our political history. I do not shrug this off as a bit of political rough and tumble; because I recognise blatant racism and sexism being used to hurt and divide people.
Jonathan - I can't watch The Drum as opinionists laugh at our current democratically elected government without recognising the terrific complex polices this Labor/Green/Independent government have developed and legislated over the past few years. Everyone wants a top-of-the-line NBN but where are the commentators to reflect our views. Everyone wants the NDIS, Gonski, a cleaner environment for themselves, their children and the world but where are the commentators to back our views.
What's on our front pages, all over the media like a collective madness - 'Stop The Boats' and 'Ditch the Witch'. I've had enough.
If Australians aren't smart enough to see through the media. spin doctor manipulation and choose decency over thuggery - then you get what you deserve. Maybe that's why Abbotts LNP don't want Gonski - why on earth would they want an educated Australia which would see right through them.
J Edgar Hoover:
06 Jun 2013 11:07:53pm
Its all well and good to want this and to want that.
There is an old saying, there are infinite desires but finite resources.
This is not a question of identifying all these new initiatives to have, the question is can it be achieved within ones means. Its the reality check. Gough Whitlam fell on his overspent budget.
A few years ago a wise man told me the pattern in Australian politics was that Labor got in with the new vision, but couldn't manage to achieve it and typically overspent.
Then the liberals came in after them and managed to get it completed, and within budget. The process repeated itself. That was in 2009. Seems the pattern is repeating itself.
To be absolutely frank, I dont want the liberals any more than you do, but until the ALP can manage to implement its visions within the framework of a real budget, it is doomed to an ideological dustbin.
KK:
07 Jun 2013 7:14:59am
Australia has been absorbing migrants for many years and we have grown, learnt and no longer feel threatened by other cultures, which is why we can tell the difference between genuinely needy people and queue jumping frauds who pay criminals to bring them here.
mj:
06 Jun 2013 1:57:38pm
I don't agree with the boat people, it's dangerous.
However as far as Centrelink is concerned they don't just give you money within a week of arrival and make damn sure once you get it one needs to show 10 job applications every 2 weeks which can be verified.
They are constantly on your back and the only way out is to do voluntary work 2 full time days a week ie work for the dole or else with Government approved companies, consisting mainly of stuffing letters, mail in mail out or other administrative jobs, work that no one else likes doing, that is my own personal experience. Which I think is good. I do voluntary work for the Australian Diabetes Council so I can get the Dole.
I am white, but working with me we have every nationality under the sun. If we don't do that the dole is stopped they have stringent check ups to make sure you are fulfilling your obligation and need to produce written confirmation every 3 months by that company to present to Centrelink ie forms filled in and a letter signed by the head of that Company.
So for $250 for 2 days work full time per week payed from the dole most of the people look for other work, there is no free lunch under the sun believe you me. They will give you manual jobs and stuffing letters, sending parcels or opening letters one doesn't need to speak English. In fact we work very hard, sometimes we send out 3000 letters in a day or more. Just stuffing these envelopes, bundling them up, taking them down to the mailroom, Diabetes is on the rise and the Data Bank is just on the rise up and up, in NSW around 1/2 million people are affected by this disease (better check your blood just in case).
mr shark:
06 Jun 2013 2:01:34pm
once again, someone submits a sensible , thoughtful article that portions out blame on all sides of politics regarding a very important aspect of our political and social life and the tories come out in droves and start throwing their mud at the left and the author . Can't you transcend your prejudices just for once and look objectively at an issue ? no , i suppose thats too much to ask. It seems that some of us are predestined to have closed minds and we view everything through the glass of our preconceived ideas - filtering out anything that might cause us to change our minds. this is a problem of both far left and far right and it is poisoning any worthwhile and measured debate on almost all forums.
M Ryutin:
06 Jun 2013 2:06:46pm
Rather than just accept the broadish brush used (again) about how bad we all are not to agree with those who know better than us how we should do things, the interviews by Laurie Ferguson the other day should settle once and for all the really-anecdotal stuff about just who is up in arms about this flood of boat arrivals. For those of us who decry the failed policies due to the effect it does have on all those who are genuine refugees WITH papers in camps in Africa and elsewhere who now cannot get here at all, this attempt to divert the blame to all those ?rednecks? and the inner racism of everyone but the open-slather elites who attack them is not only futile but wrong.
To Ferguson it is not only the post WW2 refugees upset about it but even the newer refugees from Africa and elsewhere who worked hard once they were allowed to get here after classification overseas.
Most people reading this wouldn?t know how to get to the fabled ?Western Suburbs? of Sydney without a GPS system, but the population mix includes very many migrants and refugees from the old ?formal? system of entry. They are all, it seems, opposed, so either they must have become racist in a hurry or the apologists are wrong.
Blaming the people who are (apparently) too stupid to vote the way their betters tell them they should not extend to broad accusations of racism in any of us.
mr shark:
06 Jun 2013 2:18:12pm
almost all of the comments here prove Johnathons point, there is a lot of hatred and fear out there . We are essentially still in a mindset from when we lived in small tribes, fear of strangers then was perfectly understandable, limited resources meant that a newcomer could take some of those resources and this could mean death by starvation during the winter months.
Even though we now ( mostly ) live in a land of plenty, we still fear the unknown, the incomers, we still want to keep what we've got even though now its a townhouse on the north shore or a bigger car.its really only the poor who should fear refugees , as they compete for their low paid jobs and accommodation, but its clear that Lawyers, teachers , businessmen and others who are well healed also share these fears and resentments . There is racism in all racial groups, its not exclusive to whites, what we need is a development of our group consciousness to try to overcome this, but whats the chance of that when we are all busy fearing the unknown and exaggerating the consequences of those fears ?
Steve Mount:
06 Jun 2013 2:23:45pm
Jonathan, I agree with you wholeheartedly, but I take one exception. I don't see that the quoted statement of Gillard's is racist, as it stands.
Gillard, and the federal parliament, have an obligation to the Australian electorate, at large, to ensure that policy decisions encourage employment for Australian people, ie, the constituents, the voters, those who pay their wages, regardless of 'race'. Surely there is nothing mind-bending about that concept. Of course they should put local workers ahead of foreign workers.
It may well infer that 'we will not permit employers or global corporations to import and employ foreign workers for slave wages'. Nothing unreasonable about that, either.
Which nation-state puts the interests of foreign workers ahead of its own populace? None that I can think of. The corporates might, but not the governments.
The statement may represent a form of border Socialism, or perhaps even Nationalism, in terms of being self-concerned, but it is not racist.
The Australian Government's prime concern, and responsibility, is to the Australian people. It not politically responsible for the decisions that overseas nation states may make, nor for the plight of their people.
However, if you want to argue the humanitarian aspect, well, that's a whole different story.
confused:
06 Jun 2013 2:26:51pm
To everyone railing against asylum seekers, or who has ever referred to them as "queue jumpers" or suggested they stop off somewhere else on the way to Australia, can I please ask that you read this. It's well written, easy to understand and will answer many of your concerns.
http://www.asrc.org.au/media/documents/myths-facts-solutions-info-apr-20...
Thank you.
Harquebus:
06 Jun 2013 2:29:48pm
I used to say in this forum that there is only one race, the human race but, all I got in response was jokes about the Melbourne Cup.
Esteban:
06 Jun 2013 2:51:54pm
The modern ALP has two quite distinct buttocks to their rump support.
There is the well known working class/union buttock who are pretty mainstream when it comes to boat policy and would like to see the boats stop.
Then there is the inner city /pseudo elite buttock who would like to open the borders.
It is bad luck for ALP polititions that they are forced to occupy the mid point between these two disparate buttocks.
social anathema:
06 Jun 2013 2:54:35pm
1. Australians have racism down to a fine art. We're not racist, but...
2. I voted against the Howard regime partly because of their cruelty to boat arrivals, and I am extremely disappointed by this government's treatment of the same.
3. If we outsource our management of detention centres to the right hand of multinational prison management companies what do we expect the left hand to be doing to retain profitability?
4. Before vote on Tony Abbott's promise to "stop the boats"
(or any other single issue) perhaps we should reflect on a poem that was written by C J Dennis in about 1916.
It is called "The Bridge across the Creek." It is about two candidates for an election. One spoke of grand issues, and idealism. The other promised to build the bridge across the local creek. Guess who won, again and again, on the promise of the "bridge across the creek?"
5. For the coming election I am looking for a party who will base their policies on properly conducted research instead of populist opinion and hearsay, rumour, and innuendo.
MulberryWriter:
06 Jun 2013 2:57:55pm
Putting the 457 visa issue alongside face to face racism is a furphy. The 457 visas allow people from elsewhere to come in for work where there is a gap in trained people for jobs here. It is not about keeping foreigners out and the workers here are not always white Australians. Protecting jobs for Australians means protecting for all Australians, whatever their cultural and national origin. Goodness me I get sick of this twaddle.
paulinadelaide:
06 Jun 2013 3:10:59pm
Where do you start with a piece like this?
I guess the 13 yo. I saw the event but didn't hear what she said and perhaps more importantly how she said it. I like Adam Goodes - think he's a brilliant footballer and seems a nice bloke. Didn't even realise for some years that he was aboriginal. Given the circumstances I can imagine his anger at the girl. Even so I think, without the emotion, it was a strange reaction. What if it was say Brad Pitt in the same circumstances...water off a ducks back i guess.
Now Eddie. Yep made a mistake. But. Typically in Australia we make jokes about things that affect us. Often the more the affect the more & crasser the jokes. Americans don't seem to understand it. But it is a national trait and I assume EM automatically went to it.
Refugees. The left likes to promote the link between racism and our treatment of boat refugees. No doubt some racism exists - name me a place on earth it doesn't. But I think this racism link is used simply to paper over the obvious. ie. We went through this whole process years ago - the boats stopped and most of those arrivals now live happily in Oz. KR changed the rules and it all started again. You seem to totally ignore that this is waht upsets so many people. It isn't racist it's political.
Secondly anyone from O/s knows the more illegal refugees there are the less chance they have of getting thier own families in - could be why W Sydney is a key place here.
Thirdly the cost. It's horrendously expensive.
Fourthly are they political refugees or economic?
Fithly if they're paying someone to come why doesn't our Govt act in the place of people smugglers?
NT intervention - don't know much about it. What I do know though is despite the expenditure of $B's over the decades and the efforts of thousands of public servants it doesn't appear we've solved much in the way of aboriginal problems.
Tiresias:
06 Jun 2013 3:36:27pm
Here is one way 'fear, hate and prejudice' are promulgated:
Newspoll: LNP 58% Labor 42%
Morgan Poll LNP 55% Labor 45%
Notice anything strange here? Was the difference caused by the difference in extent and nature of the polls?
And why was one poll widely commented on, and used in Parliament, while the other poll has not been mentioned?
John:
07 Jun 2013 9:11:16am
That's easy, Tiresias, and I suspect that you know the answer but are only looking for a chance to make a point.
First, the difference between 58/42 and 55/45 is the error factor in the polling. They are both pretty well telling us the same thing, and probably a split down the middle to 57/43 is the true position.
The reason that the 58/42 poll was so widely discussed, and it was discussed in a "universal spread" context, was that it would chop down some very senior ALP figures, like Smith and Dreyfus and Gray, not to mention people like Swan and Bradbury. Indeed, I read in our local paper that Albanese, in a pretty safe seat, is frantically seeking Green and other minority vote support to hold on.
And, of course, there is always the "Rudd will hold the only Queensland seat" factor.
There's no "fear, hate and prejudice" in numbers. Just cold, hard facts.
Mick In The Hills:
06 Jun 2013 3:37:26pm
"The trickle of boat-borne arrivals does not by any objective international measure constitute a crisis. "
Tell that to the disabled carers who could sure use the $6 billion being expended needlessly on IMA's, that wouldn't be arriving in such numbers if Senator Evans hadn't pushed through the undoing of Howard's effective border control laws.
"The proudest day of my life" Evans crowed. I wonder if he ever gives a thought to the >1,000 drowned people at the bottom of the Indian Ocean his puffed-chest stupidity caused.
flipside:
06 Jun 2013 3:48:17pm
When you grow up in comfort and freedom it's natural to assume you have unlimited amounts to give to everyone. But the reality is quite different. There aren't unlimited resources and space anywhere; that's why conflicts start.
It's easy to assume that Australia is big and we can then have unlimited numbers of immigrants but that's denying the reality of our country: it's big but most of it cannot support large numbers of people. Our original inhabitants didn't exactly thrive in the deserts - they were drawn to the 'nice' spots just as the settlers were.
Perhaps the bleeding hearts have only lived in a city where everything comes from a shop or out of a tap. When studying these sorts of issues, the practical ('racist') views are usually held by people with real experience. The bleeding hearts usually have had no real exposure and nothing to offer, just shrill name calling on a forum.
In a world with limited supply, are they going to be the ones to go without to provide support for the immigrants they want to stay?
Ture Sjolander 2013:
06 Jun 2013 4:00:41pm
Australia have never been so close to be a Republic as right now.
Bloke:
06 Jun 2013 4:03:56pm
Jonathon, it was very sobering last year to see a photo taken of the "House of Representatives" during one of the votes on asylum seekers, on one side of the parliament were two men, Adam Bandt and Andrew Wilkie and emptiness. All the other MHRs were on the other side of the house: Labor, Liberal, Nats and the independents, men and women.
I finally understood that only two MHRs put principle before their own power. Two. It made me realise that all the rest of them would sell me down the river too if the vote was between a matter of principle or their own career/power.
I guess that is what you are getting at: we should have men and women of honour in our parliament who vote according to principle, rise or fall, but at least on a principle that they will stand behind and be accountable for, not merely for their own power or career.
I recall that when the boat crashed at Christmas Island, a little boy was orphaned. He and his father's body were flown to Sydney for a funeral with his broader family (a 'concession' by the government) and then he was flown back to the island. Evil and cruel.
Most of our MHRs purport to be loving people with families of their own, but it is apparent, they have hearts of stone.
Thankyou for you brave post Mr Greene.
Robert:
06 Jun 2013 4:15:29pm
What you say just demonstrates the hypocrisy of Julia Gillard.
She and the rest pf her gang are right into prejudice,playing one against another,and don't tell me Tony Abbott does the same because he doesn't.
Pedro Pesce:
06 Jun 2013 4:25:40pm
I suppose one needs to focus their commentary on their own backyard, however the racism the author speaks of is no different to any other nation - it's ubiquitous to the human condition, and mostly worse everywhere else. Name me one nation more exemplary.
In fact Australia is one of the most successful nations to date in assimilating different cultures, now under threat because of mismanagement and rhetoric such as this article. People are sick to death for being labeled over complaining about an obvious rort and being overwhelmed - and its damned costly!
Labor is about to lose power because of its incapacity to deal with this. Taunts of racism will not stop democracy working, and this is what the people want, Jonathan. If we are all too dumb and small minded to see with your eyes, you better take another gander at Tim Dunlop's piece today and take note.
As I see the refugee issue, it is more about lack of control of our borders, and the dubiousness and legitimacy of the vast majority of refugees than race. But there is a elephant in the room that PC people will not acknowledge and that is people from Islamic countries do not settle well in the west; they didn't do too well in India either.
There are plenty of examples in Europe - the UK is a basket case and even Islamic countries such as Turkey are desperate to maintain secularism. Organised crime has more than its representative share - we've made mistakes before in this regard, but not as huge as this.
Do we have to keep making errors of judgment just to prove to the likes of Jonathan what broad minded idealists we are.
Too many Australians crow with such self righteousness because they are spoilt - their way of life has never been threatened. They spruik and preach from the smug isolationist comfort of their preconceived idealism; but have not a clue about the real world, which naively they wish to inflict on us with a 'come one come all' immigration approach.
Already we see the warning signs. We need to be concerted in stopping this least future generations look back with envy at what once was one of the most enviable nations to live as they suffer in a society of the lowest common denominator.
Call me racist every day of the week if that's what is needed to keep us the way we are.
Mycal:
06 Jun 2013 4:27:34pm
"If there wasn't a vote in hate, fear and prejudice then there would be no gain in pandering to any of them. The great Australian shame is that not only are there votes to be had here, but that this is the heartland in which our political game is lost and won."
Makes you ashamed to be an Australian doesn't it? Of course there are votes to be had in calling on our better angels, it's just that we don't have the leaders capable of doing it.
Can you imagine a Robert Menzies or a Bob Hawke doing the dog whistle, would Malcolm Fraser or Gough Whitlam have indulge our baser prejuidices in a race to the bottom?
I think the answer is obvious. I also think we should be leery of any politician that indulges our dark side, if nothing else it indicates that they have no ethics or morality and do you really want them as leaders?
Aja:
06 Jun 2013 4:33:20pm
None of us will have to worry about the "crisis of the boat people". Tony Abbott has announced today that he will stop the boats in his first term. His crystal ball must be a different brand to mine.
Just tell us how Tony, after all it was you who champed at the bit until the Government implemented Nauru and that didnt even stop the boats coming!
People whinge and whine about how long it takes refugees to be "processed" but recently we have heard of a FEW who have been deported because of their criminal background.
So you can't have it both ways, either they are refugees and have to wait until their credentials are investigated correctly (i.e. when they arrive without papers find out if what they are saying is true) or you admit them warts and all and take the consequences. I know which I prefer.
So lets wait and find out what Tony Abbott's solution to stopping the boats is. He cannot get the navy to turn the boats around because its against the law of the sea, where will he send them back to (Indonesia doesn't want them), or will he just sell Christmas Island and let them settle there?
As usual the Liberal Party has a solution for everything especially when they have not even been elected yet!
Trek:
06 Jun 2013 9:42:37pm
@Aja, you are obviously following McTernan 'cheat sheet. 'Try to create a doubt whether the coalition can stop the boats. Well, it did before and there is no reason why it would not do it again. People like you Aja conveniently forget that the system worked fine until the bleeding hearts lefties, 'humanitarians' influenced a change of the policy, which virtually advertised to the criminal people smugglers "you are back in business..." It is now a 250 million dollars industry. It requires some decisive and resolute action to break such powerful industry.
To start with the coalition will immediately introduce Temporary Protection Visas (TPV) This is such an easy and yet such powerful deterrent. TPV provides ONLY temporary protection, until it is safe for the boat people to go back to their own country. It does not allow them to bring their families like 'bridging visas'. It gives them no hope that they would necessarily get permanent residence.
We all know that something needs to be done urgently. From three boats per year to three boats every day now. From 25 people in detention during Howard government to 30,000 now. These are no longer small wooden boats. They are no coming in large aluminium boats of 200 plus people. Soon they will be even bigger and bigger. If nothing is done the numbers will continue to increase and will eventually overwhelm our ability to process and place them anywhere. There are over 20 million refugees at our doorsteps and most of them would like to access our welfare system. People who continue to burry their heads in the sand and still claim some moral supremacy and 'humanity', need to remember that it is claims like that that changed a perfectly working system replacing it with chaos which is responsible for drowning of hundreds if not thousands of people. Such hypocrites!!!
IanM:
06 Jun 2013 4:37:24pm
Best contribution from Jonathan Green for ages. I've rarely seen such a clear expression of contempt for the working classes from an inner city "progressive". This is the ALP wedge writ large, and a thing of wonder to see it so unambiguously expressed by someone paid out of the taxes of those he despises. Perfect!
Sam:
06 Jun 2013 5:13:36pm
Arrogant presumptuous, patronising rubbish.
You are not prepared to debate the issue of migration and refugees on its merits - you smear everyone who disagrees with your views as racist.
My objections to the so-called asylum seekers are not based on race - I don't care what race they are nor where they come from - but we should be able to discuss the merits of uncontrolled immigration without being accused by you of being racist.
punch:
06 Jun 2013 5:31:44pm
The Egyptian in detention was sentenced in absence during the violent, volatile Arab spring.
Tony Abbotts extreme right LNP have a habit of besmirching people particularly the most vulnerable.
To use this unknown person is wrong, racist and misleading in every way. Tony Abbott, to use his words, is not the right 'calibre' of person to lead this beautiful country.
rod:
06 Jun 2013 5:32:52pm
One has to admire your tenacity, Jonathan. You write as though australians might be convinced by reason.
Personally I wrote them off long ago: two weeks ago I shipped the last $60,000 of my life savings offshore. For there is a cold, hard logical dimension to this quite aside from the moral issue, which my wrath at this pathetic land prevents me from talking rationally about any more:
A land whose people such wretched whingers that they can be whipped up into the current mood by a few miserable boats which would take about 30 years to fill the MCG at this rate is a land of weak individuals and whose eventual, utter downfall in the face of even mild hardship is a certainty.
What on earth is this country going to do when we have a real refugee problem? I.e. wait for a decade or so when the Pacific nations are flooded. My children going to watch their countrymen and women slaughter these thousands wholesale at sea just for "our way of life"?
No. I shan't be living here much longer: investment in a land that has such shrivelled problem-solving capacity makes no sense and besides, australians, I don't want my children up against the poison of your values. Goodbye.
Thank you to the many delusional posters here who confirm the rightness of my decisions.
KK:
06 Jun 2013 5:41:31pm
'cold-hearted policy aimed at resisting the arrival of refugees from war, hunger, poverty, oppression and simple fear'
Try 'a level headed attempt at making sure the most needy are helped before cashed up queue jumpers who enrich vile criminals'.
JamesH:
06 Jun 2013 5:57:15pm
One thing is for sure Tony Abbott can never stop the boats from coming to Australia since Italy lost its battle with the Hirsi court case. John Howard Pacific Solution has sunk to the bottom of the seabed, never to surface again.
KK:
07 Jun 2013 8:27:21am
The Hirsi case dealt with people who were being sent directly to the place they had been fleeing. This is different to people being sent back to a transit country.
The Pacific Solution worked and, with the right amount of determination, it will work again.
Ann:
06 Jun 2013 6:00:20pm
Of course the politicians will use public sentiment to their advantage. They want
to be elected! Unfortunately (for them) the ALP did not listen and will not be
re-elected. Your "racist loathing and fear" comes from the experience of
Australians who know first hand of the frightening Islamic "invasion" of their
streets. You, probably, don't live in such streets. You, probably, have not been
employed in areas where you actually meet and process asylum seekers who
have paid heaps to get on boats, have disposed of any I.D. papers they had and who are mainly young men who have left their wives and children to face
an uncertain future alone. Australians are not the rednecks and racists you
choose to believe they are - but are hard-working people with common sense
and a sense of justice for other Australians. Don't you think we KNOW what has
gone on in other countries?
Long Huynh:
06 Jun 2013 6:01:36pm
After the globalization of the economy, the democracy has been globalized. Under Howard's government, we aligned with the USA to declare and fight with what is called "the war on terror" in Afghanistan and Iraq. Although currently, under different government, domestically or globally, we must face with undeniable and inevitable issues of the effects of this war.
Here are the facts:
?Thousands of death, millions of displacement, enhanced interrogation techniques, injustice of mandatory detention and temporary protection, and unhealthiness of both physical and mental conditions of asylum seekers.
?We are proud to have a liberal democracy and its core values are humanity, liberty, equality and justice
?We are also effected by negativity that creates fear, hatred and prejudice within our society.
?We often make difficult political choices and Australian history proves that these choices are usually based on a critical understanding of what is the core of our heritage and practices of our social and political life. The abolishing of the White Policy and the Reconciliation with Ingenious Australians are the examples.
Every society has its contingent facts of contemporary political culture that encompass many political issues: liberal individualism versus communitarian; political equality versus female political participation; the politics of identity or difference in political movements, such as gay liberation and ethnic and indigenous rights, etc. Racism is one of these issues that concern about the human rights and at the current situation it is exploited by some political forces that drive to achieve their political gains while disregard the moral cost imposes on the society.
For years, Australians spirit instead being lift up for its prosperity and achievements in the progress of economy, education and environment, has being obsessed by obsessive negativity. So, please make choices based on our core values that are humanity, liberty, equality and justice instead of the intentional negativity that creates fear, hatred and prejudice within our society.
"Hey you, don't tell me there's no hope at all. Together we stand, devided we fall".
BJA:
06 Jun 2013 6:10:40pm
I am utterly disgusted with the policy of the Government.
I am even more disgusted with the despicable behaviour of the Opposition.
However I am even more disgusted yet by the journalists of Australia who have consistently, over a period of years, allowed Messrs Abbott and Morrison to lie about this matter without ever bringing them to account for their dishonesty.
Howard's advice from the navy was that it was wantonly dangerous to tow old wooden vessels with navy ships.
The Safety of Life at Sea provisions of the Commonwealth navigation Act would in almost every case make doing so a criminal offence .
It has been known for years that Indonesia will not agree to Australia shirking its responsibilities by dumping refugees there.
Unless you and your journalist colleagues can point to the times that you have confronted Abbott and Morrison with these matters whenever they have lied to the Australian public
you are in very poor shape to pretend to statesmanlike utterances equating the ALP's shortcomings in the matter with the depravity and lies of the Opposition.
RobG:
06 Jun 2013 6:19:41pm
Clearly Australia has had a racist past and clearly there are many around today who continue to hold those instincts in greater or lesser degree, including - perhaps especially - recent migrants to Australia.
But I don't think racism is a good label for what we are talking about here. It is much more about cultural differences than colour.
The axiom about migration to Australia is that the locals (who are all recent migrants themselves if they aren't indigenous) have always taken a while to come feel comfortable with successive waves of migrants throughout the years. The English didn't much like the Irish, the gold diggers hated the Chinese, nobody was enthusiastic about the Italians and Greeks, the Vietnamese didn't endear themselves with gang activities in the 1980s, migrants from Lebanon after the civil war ditto.
This is human nature everywhere. It can be ameliorated by exposing ourselves to other cultures through education, travel and celebrating the bounty of cultural diversity in food, art and language - but coping with cultural differences has always been, and will always be, character building. Like anything worth having, it is hard work but very satisfying when the goal is achieved.
Given time, anything can be accomplished and over a period of time people adjust - but it does take time. Very large influxes in a short period, ghetto-isation and considerable cultural differences between migrants and the host community will all slow down the adjustment process - on both sides. So will the discussion about what concessions are going to be made by each side. Some of those concessions are seriously challenging and those debates can only occur over years.
However, Australia has been very successful at adjusting in the past and should be able to continue to adjust given a mature, honest and respectful debate and sensible policy outcomes. Everyone needs to play a constructive part but especially political leaders and the media.
Nevertheless there are real limits to how much cultural admixture a finite population can comfortably absorb within a finite period of time. I'm not sure what those limits are for this country, but I do know that arguing our current migrant intake (boat and plane arrivals) is nothing compared to what overseas countries are absorbing is not a valid comparison.
The optimum number of migrants comfortably absorbed in a year will obviously depend on the size of the host population, the degree of cultural similarity of the migrants, the conditions of the host economy (availability of work and housing) and other factors. It may well be that Australia can take a lot more migrants, both "regular" and refugees, than we do at the moment - or not - but I don't recall ever hearing this explained by any of our leaders in terms other than rhetorical. A few years ago there was a debate about whether this country had already passed its car
bilbo2:
06 Jun 2013 6:22:54pm
Jonathan
I fail to understand the logic of an accusation of xenophobia for calling for changes to our refugee assistance that will deliver a huge inprovement in cost efficiency but does not alter the number of refugees that enter Australia. Many taxpayers who are not racists object to the current hugely expensive system of self selection facilitated by out of date laws, people smugglers and lawyers. A must lower cost per refugee can easily be achieved if self selection is made legally impossible. If the only path to asylum in Australia was via application through our overseas diplomatic services "desperate" individuals would soon stop wasting their money trying to rort their way around the system.
Australian taxpayers tend to be generous however a failure to halt the current wastefull immigration self selection free for all has lost the Labor Party a lot of support.
I would like to see any logical argument that the the views I have expressed are racist or xenophobic.
trublue:
07 Jun 2013 1:34:22am
Thanks for your article and don't you think Jonathon that you are underestimating the positive changes that the Labor party have tried to achieve in regard to inequality and lack of education to name a few. As the more knowledge that we all get helps us to become more understanding and compassionate to everyone. What have you ever written that tells of the achievements of our PM?? Yes I do agree that the Labor party has made some mistakes and our Immigration issues need improvements and are complex and have had a history and still today a cruel and political game being played out by the Liberals. You are in a position of power to educate and not keep up with emotive and negative words in dealing with such complex policies.. I for one are proud of our PM for what Labor has and is trying to continue to do for sociol justice and equality of our first people and all disadvantaged people. Also not to mention our environment despite negative and misinformation from Tony Abbott
EmcCan:
06 Jun 2013 7:12:59pm
All of this idealist ranting is beyond comprehension.
We are facing a situation where people are arriving to this country by boat, without any form of identification. The Goverment simply doesn't know who they are. Thats a FACT. Hypothetically, if you were a criminal potentially facing the death penalty for murder in your home country, and you knew you could throw your passport away and go to Australia. What would you do?
Unfortunately, all people are inherently bad to a certain degree - people do bad things, such as lie, cheat and steal. The point is we simply cannot give people the benefit of the doubt when it comes to these things. We cannot assume people are entirely innocent when we cannot even indentify them.
It's naive.
I realise that there are a lot of innocent people amongst the dishonest that genuinely deserve asylum here, but it's the dishonest people that we MUST be prepared for, and our 'immigration' policies should reflect this - which they do not.
Australia is one of the most racially tolerant countries in the world - a trip to India, the middle east or Europe will demonstrate that to you.
GCS:
06 Jun 2013 7:30:00pm
I happen to be reading Hugh Mcakay's 'The Good Life" and think everyone should read it.
To quote a few paras, from it
" In a Golden Rule world politicians would treat their pollitical opponents with respect as they themselves would wish to be treated. Political debates would be marked by a spirit of courtesy, based on a proper recognition of each other' legitimacy as elected members of parliament and respect for each other's conviction"
And 'the art of the debate is not to comdemn your opponents but to point out why your arguements are more credible"
We have a lot to learn!!
PScott:
06 Jun 2013 8:07:19pm
For heaven's sake! This is not a racist statement: "The Government has a plan to stop foreign workers being put at the front of the queue with Australian workers at the back".
Australian workers are a very mixed bunch, from hundreds of racial and cultural backgrounds: they are not a homogenous race, but theiy are all Australians. It is the job of our government to take care of Australian citizens, and that is what they propose to do. And in so doing, they are removing opportunities for some employers to exploit vulnerable people from other countries for their own financial gain.
Marie K:
06 Jun 2013 8:14:48pm
"What else other than a subtle racist underlay could have enabled the quickly imposed apartheid of the NT intervention, policy at first carried out by our armed forces under the cover of a suspended race discrimination act and that years later still leaves citizens innocent of any offence other than their race with limited control over their own income and the most mundane details of their daily life."
This is just nonsense, Green. Aboriginal women have welcomed income management. And drunken assaults on women using broken beer bottles drop when alcohol abuse is curtailed.
That Guy:
06 Jun 2013 8:15:05pm
I was really hoping to enjoy this article. And in many respect I did. I have been lucky enough to travel and see a range of overseas countries personally and I do feel there is a lot of validity in the idea that we are doing better than a lot of other places. Also the endless hand wringing and self-flagellation does get tiresome. But I do think that there is still a place for introspection and awareness that racism is an ugly and hurtful thing and we should remain ever vigilant. To me it cheapens the debate the way the media latch onto things in a rather shrill manner, a calmer discussion is surely preferable.
The only thing that really marred that article for me was the waffle about the intervention. There seemed some non-genuine 'what, me take a long bow?' aspect to this section of the article. The idea that it was carried out by our armed forces is a rather strange assertion. Last figures I recall seeing indicated something along the lines of 120-150 personnel were active in the intervention - mainly in the logistics area and some limited field work. And their presence was mainly to support the civilian aspect of the intervention to operate in some very remote and challenging terrain. Rather than bleat about it a better move might have been to point out how appropriate a use of our taxpayer funded personnel it was - after all they are well capable of operating in such areas.
Secondly the line where the author states "that years later still leaves citizens innocent of any offence other than their race with limited control over their own income and the most mundane details of their daily life" seems disingenuous beyond belief. It is called Income Management and is across the board in the NT and is being progressively introduced in a variety of areas - urban, rural and remote, across Australia. That the author leaves this out, that the author seemingly wants us to believe he actually thinks Income Management is anything to do with race at all these days, that he wants us to think he is unaware of the huge benefits this scheme has brought about in remote Indigenous areas is just plain dishonest.
As I say, I think there will always be a need for vigilance against racism. Always a need for gently reinforcing the message that it is not OK. I'd just like a little more honesty from those providing that message. Because societal (and individual) improvement should be a never ending journey and whatever the past, we're all here together now so lets make the country as great as we all know it can be.
John:
06 Jun 2013 9:11:07pm
Hate, fear and prejudice?
Is that how the rest of the world regards Australians? Or is Jonathan Green trying to smear the Coalition with the stench of Labor and drag it down now that Labor is sinking faster than the Titanic and breaking apart at the bottom?
Jonathan, in my experience of travelling widely and working around the world, far from hate, fear and prejudice, Aussies are widely regarded as tolerant, confident and very fair minded.
Why don't you look at some of the REAL reasons why Australians are so determined to toss Labor out and ask yourself whether it is a question of fear or a strong desire to protect the identity they cherish and whether their motives are based hate or pride.
Could it be that they see their CULTURE being threatened like what they see in the UK, which Churchill could never have imagined since he saved it from Nazi domination? Could there be a fine line between multiculturism and a polluting of a national identity?
This is what Australians are prepared to fight for and what will determine the outcome on Sept 14, not hate fear and prejudice.
Cassandra:
06 Jun 2013 9:12:15pm
Thank you from me too, Jonathon.
Though this little piece was written many years ago, at the time of the 'Tampa' Election in 2001, it may still (sadly) have relevance. Hope it gets a guernsey - had no success when I tried to post it to a previous 'Drum' article.
Questions For the 'Lucky Country'
Why is it that the weak are made weaker,
By so many who have no idea
Of the Beast and the dark and the horror
In lives lived a long way from here?
Why do some people close thinking,
Closing fists too, in gestures of hate,
Aimed entirely at those who are blameless
And fleeing from murderous States?
Why does a man need a scapegoat
To trample on down in the dirt?
Does this make that man feel more human,
When humanity's desp'rate and hurt?
My response to such answerless questions
Is colloquial, maybe, and small:
It's much better to have your heart bleeding
Than to have no bloody heart left at all....!
Cass 2001
Matt McCormack:
06 Jun 2013 9:32:17pm
The first two paragraphs of this article were enough.
I have had enough of the political correctness "thang".
The very values of our democracy are being undermined by all. The political representatives, the corporate governors, the 13 yr olds. Each in their own way showing a very uneducated and simplified response to the events of the day.
Lets look at the facts.
Globalisation is bringing scores of people, of various races to our shores. It is happening to all shores. From the 3rd world of poverty, injustice and oppression to the shores where it is apparently better. Our country, like Japan, the US, and other western nations, is ageing rapidly. Look at the death notices for yourself. Many of those who built and know democratic ways of living are not long for this earth.
What is at stake is not the make up of the races of our nation, it is the attitudes toward the democratic nation, and how the peoples of democratic nations live, that is being being undermined by some of the very people who the democratic nation has offered support.
What is being undermined, and what is being threatened, is the democratic freedoms and liberty of our nation, from a relatively small but growing and supported element of new arrivals who seek their own way of life on this land. Some of these people dont want to live in "Australia" the western democratic nation. They want to live on this landmass, and bring their own laws. This way of life is the ultimate combination of religious institution + state. It is the equivalent of church and state. It dictates all aspects of living. It denies the freedoms and responsibilities of being a citizen that contributes to debate.
The greatest threat at this time is not a few racist comments from high profile individuals and 13 yrs olds about the indigenous, it is political correctness and the unwillingness to see the trojan horse that has been sent to us in the guise of helping the alien.
Gratuitous Adviser:
06 Jun 2013 10:03:56pm
Heard it, and even commented on it, all for a long time now.
Australians (indigenous, 8th, 7th, 6th, 5th, 4th, 3rd, 2nd and the most recent who played by the rules, will not cop uncontrolled immigration, get used to it.
When's the election??
Forrest Gardener:
06 Jun 2013 10:15:34pm
Jonathan, I reject the suggestion that the Australian political heartland is one of hate, fear or prejudice. To the contrary, the Australian political heartland is the land of the fair go.
Once you cease seeing the good in people there is no hope.
And yes, for Labor Fans, I see good in you despite the regular expressions of fear, uncertainty and distrust and even hate you express about your political enemies.
Andrew:
06 Jun 2013 10:58:56pm
Who died and made Jonathon the King. Who is he to determine what is it that is appropriate. The dog whistling is from the likes of Mr Green, subtly ensuring that we know that only the left wing can determine all things moral.
Lets follow the issue of alleged asylum seekers arriving illegally (see Section 64 of the Customs Act 1901). Yes people entitled to seek refuge, no they are not entitled to arrive unannounced in Australia.
If we follow the apparent logic of Mr Green - we should say nothing and simply accept every boat that arrives, in many ways probably a good policy because we save all the money we spend on bringing people who need protection directly from camps overseas because there will be no capacity to accept people from camps.
Why does the likes of Green reference the UN when it suits but fails to support the UN process on this matter.
The serious answer is of course that he and many like him simply don't think through the complexities of what they are saying.
anne perth:
06 Jun 2013 11:01:19pm
Thank you once again JG for sending me a breath of fresh air. I am sorry you get abused so strangely. I can't account for it. But never change and never stop saying the things we need to hear. Ur the John Lennon of the media. Imagine!
Patrick:
06 Jun 2013 11:18:10pm
The last refuge of the homeless is a pavement in an alley.
(Over 100.000 homeless Australians thus far.)
RobG:
06 Jun 2013 11:19:03pm
A few years ago there was a debate about whether this country had already passed its optimum carrying capacity and shouldn't we wind back our migration intake before we wreck the environment completely. There was quite a bit of support for that idea, not only from Greens but among the wider population. No support at all from big business and the conservatives who are more worried about keeping the labour supply as plentiful as possible.
Well, suddenly that concern seems to have evaporated and one extreme is talking about increasing our refugee intake and laying on flights to collect all comers from Malaysia and Indonesia. The other side, as usual, has no sane policy position to speak off either - just more hairy-chested drum thumping from the party that took us to war in Vietnam, Iraq and Afghanistan.
The problem is, I think, that most Australians understand there is no simple solution, but they also suspect that there may be no solution at all - a frightening possibility. So naturally they wonder where it will all end. As several earlier contributors have pointed out endless conflict and dislocation of people in Africa and Asia is a long term trend. Yes Western colonialism, old and new, has contributed significantly to this parlous situation, but so have the internecine struggles between various tribal groupings and religious sects, as we've seen in Sri Lanka, Afghanistan, Libya and now Syria.
And if this wasn't enough of a problem there is the train wreck of climate change bearing down on top of it all.
Hello, everyone! There are some real logistical problem we are staring at with this one. Not dog whistling to the dark side of our nature, not pie-in-the-sky open door policies, not name calling with the R word - none of these are an adequate contribution to the necessary public debate by a long shot. Not from politicians and not from our public intellectuals either, Jonathan.
R.Ambrose Raven:
06 Jun 2013 11:35:01pm
Yes, there is much to criticise. But the media has worked hard to create exactly this situation.
As we see with the paean of hate towards a comparatively small number of boat-borne asylum-seekers (the similar numbers arriving by air with passports and having paid the fare attract no such attention), there can be enormous social hostility towards particular groups ? as many gypsies and homosexuals as Jews, for instance, were murdered by the Third Reich that many in these columns obviously still admire. I need hardly refer to the enthusiastic vilification of Moslems, though I could add that W.A. had an anti-Italian riot at Kalgoorlie in 1934.
You can't choose your relatives, nor can you choose your ethnicity, nor can you choose your place of birth, nor can you simply move to another country - that other country will choose who comes, and the manner in which they come.
A campaign of vilification of social welfare recipients discourages them from applying for what is a very important financial support, thus reducing any risk of the filthy rich having to put a few more cents in the collection plate. Note the strong campaign for reduction in company tax.
Corporate farming is now seriously starting to arrive with a number of Chinese investments. Much can be said about foreign (American or European just as much as any Asian) purchase of Australian agriculture resources to supply its own home market without regard to the market. Note that ruling class interests (of which such as Pauline Hanson are more or less unwitting dupes) ensure that much more is said about Asian investment than about American or European investment, even though it is really just as foreign. Similarly, One Nation types carefully avoid the recognition of the reality of class conflict, or of the shortcomings of capitalism.
Many people want to believe the lies, such as the one that refugees in Australia are entitled to higher benefits than other social security recipients. Not that lying has ever worried the haters; for such people, truth is whatever serves the needs of the moment.
Saul Geffen:
07 Jun 2013 12:22:54am
I actually agree with your refugee comments except in regards to the amount of money we spend on policing, enforcing and detaining. This is not a minor problem. The breathtaking hypocrisy of Labor and the grubby appeal to lowest denominator bythe libs is equally abhorrent. However the so called rascist intervention you complain about is completely untrue. Having been to those communities as a doctor and as someone who currently supports aborigional health program's and employs several ATSI individuals, any action that is taken to REDUCE access to alcohol and to help mainly women have enough money to buy food is to be supported. Many aborigional people support the program. Is it perfect no, paternal? Yes but the alternative is hideous, I challenge you to stop drinking lattes or Chardonnay and visit a remote aborigional community to see the dreadful effect unrestricted alcohol, pornography, marijuana etc wrecks.
Peter:
07 Jun 2013 4:07:25am
'Hate, fear and prejudice' these are three strong emotions and to group them together is a gross simplification. Of course people are afraid, sensationalist journalists are praying on fear just as equally sensationalist journalists are preying on guilt. For some years Australia's immigration policy seems to have focused on what is in it for us and why not? I suspect a move from white Australia to waves of Asian immigration are based on Asian immigrants seeking a better life, building businesses and opportunities for themselves and others, demonstrating the fears of opponents baseless. As for hate and prejudice? The province of fools and madmen(or perhaps those led to it by lazy journalist).
Aha:
07 Jun 2013 5:29:59am
How loudly the left bleats when its social engineering has failed to get a grip.
How loudly they trot out hurtful names and toss them about when it turns out the great unwashed dont share their view of how life should be.
Well guess what, the social engineering HAS taught the punters well, it has taught them not to air their true beliefs (apart from Eddie Maguire and a 13 yo kid) in the public arena, but where it counts, as in the ballot box, they support those who support their views.
Asceptic:
07 Jun 2013 6:32:46am
Thanks for reminding us to rein in our innate racist tendencies. Unfortunately we will still have to enforce our democratically elected government's new immigration laws when they are legislated after the coming election.
Frank Baldock:
07 Jun 2013 8:05:04am
I too are of the older generation and remember the vilification of the "reffos" and dagos and balts, all encouraged by our elders, but that did not deter the majority of those people from eventually integrating and helping to make this country prosperous.
I have had no contact with the current crop of people from Iraq, Iran, Afghanistan etc, so can't comment on their attitudes or reactions to the way they are being treated, but the thing that concerns me more than any other, is, how are we going to gainfully employ these people when and if they are finally given the opportunity to support themselves and their families.
The employment situation is in dire trouble now, and I know a few "boat people" are not going to exacerbate the unemployment pool to any great extent, but I wish the pundits would come up with a solution before it is too late for everyone in the younger generation.
Not My Real Name:
07 Jun 2013 8:28:00am
Sorry mate, but I think this is a ghastly article. It consists of little more than oversimplified media stereotypes dressed up in mish mash of emotive language and clumsy metaphor.
The obvious mistake the article makes is to take what goes on in the media as some kind of accurate indicator of what goes on in the life of the country. Any serious student of the media knows that this simply isn't true. Journalists have many other agendas other than accurately reporting the truth. For a journalist like yourself to reach conclusions about the state of the country by just reading the writings of other journalists is therefore amazingly pointless.
Yet your whole article seems to consist of reaching conclusions about our society based solely on working back from media content. The fact that your conclusions seem so out of synch with what I know of Australian attitudes can only lead to one (not very earth-shattering) conclusion - the media is hopelessly inaccurate. We all know that the media makes endless mistakes on single news items (just read the ABC Corrections Clarifications part of this site) and if you bring a large number of items together, as you do here, the conclusions you reach are going to be wrong by an even greater degree of magnitude.
Sociology 101:
07 Jun 2013 8:39:07am
Bravo ! Well said. I just wish the electorate would wake up to the fact that they've been 'conned' by both sides of politics - the whole 'asylum seeker debate' is nothing but a cynical political construct based on fear of the 'other' and ethnocentrism. Having created the moral panic, both parties then position themselves as the logical 'saviours', aided in no small part by mass-media socialisation. The right to seek asylum is enshrined in instruments that Australia played a significant role in establishing. How a western liberal democracy is not only comfortable with the incarceration of individuals who have commited no offence, but also with the cynical excising of the entire Australian mainland as a destination ( even if you reach Australia, you haven't reached Australia ) escapes me. If we're not prepared to become politically aware and educated, I guess we really will end up with the politicians we deserve.
Sociology 101:
07 Jun 2013 8:41:57am
I you disagree with this article, simply ask yourself this ; if asylum seekers were American, Canadian or British - people from similar backgrounds and cultures to mainstream Australia - do you honestly believe that we would be incarcerating them for indefinite periods of time in offshore prisons? Of course we wouldn't.
Rob:
07 Jun 2013 8:42:39am
Nice to read an in depth opinion piece from a journo; one based on fact not spin.
This mornng I heard an American journo tell the story of a US politician saying to journos 'the trouble with you guys is that if we say the world is round -you will find some way to report it as flat.
That is the tactic used by News Ltd and unfortunately much of the other MSM when it comes to reporting on the achievments of the Government.
They use the same tactic as whinning Pyne did last night when he told pork pies aout the PM.
Jayden C:
07 Jun 2013 8:48:04am
Brilliant article -so true.
My friend recently posted a picture in jordan of a sign in a bakery which read "Free bread for those who can't afford it". That's in Jordan - a country which got something like 705,000 refugees last year alone. Despite that the govt keeps the border open and takes care of those people as best it can.
Compare that to Australia where we get a paltry 10-20k of refugees each year. Here we demonise and attack the poorest in our society at every turn. Not just refugees, but single mums, Indigenous people etc etc.
Then there's Jordan and their free bread for those who can't afford it. The comparison between the individual level (a small bakery in Jordan vs the racist voter) and the national level (open border vs inhumane attacks) and the link between the two levels is quite remarkable.
Blackbear:
07 Jun 2013 8:52:25am
Just wondering whether it would be possible to excise Western Sydney from the mainland. It would solve a lot of problems.
Blackbear:
07 Jun 2013 8:52:26am
Just wondering whether it would be possible to excise Western Sydney from the mainland. It would solve a lot of problems.