Could this envelope solve the mystery of the DNA found in Belanglo Forest? The killer who is still out there...

The discovery of human bones this week in Belanglo Forest has reignited interest in the Backpacker Murders.

Ivan Milat continues to maintain his innocence and he and most of his family believe he was framed. There is much evidence to support this which can be found in various articles on this website:

The DNA of the killer which was found under the fingernails of the victims does not match either Ivan Milat or any member of his family.

This alone should be evidence enough to enable him to be granted a new trial. At the time Milat family members state that ‘evidence’ in the form of new backpacks and sleeping bags was carried into their homes by members of Task Force Air and subsequently claimed to have been ‘found’ there, police in NSW were known to be extremely corrupt and the Police Royal Commission was still a couple of years away.

In court, police did not claim these mostly unused backpacks and sleeping bags belonged to the deceased backpackers. They only claimed that they were ‘similar to’ the belongings of the victims. 'Similar to' isn't good enough, but it convinced the jury.

Another striking piece of evidence shown in court was a picture of Ivan Milat’s fiancée wearing a striped Benetton top, which was alleged to have been owned by a murder victim. Closer scrutiny shows that it was a different design from the one shown in a photo of the victim. Benetton experts were not called to give evidence, but had they been, they would have been able to demonstrate that the two jumpers were made in different factories at different times. This is just a small portion of the ‘evidence’ used to convict Ivan Milat.

So to whom could this DNA belong? Who could be the ‘accomplice’ claimed to be the owner of the DNA? Or, perhaps not ‘accomplice’, but the actual killer?

Could the envelope and stamp (pictured below) solve the mystery of the Belanglo murders? Could it contain the DNA of the real killer? Or, if you refuse to believe it is possible Ivan Milat is innocent, at least an accomplice to these killings?

The envelope is dated January 1993. Both the envelope and stamp required dampening in order to stick. It is very likely the sender of the letter contained therein has left his DNA on the envelope. Police don’t seem interested in getting DNA from this person whose history will be described below, so perhaps they would like to take this envelope and test it. If there’s a match or even a partial match to the DNA found in Belanglo Forest, they should look more carefully into the probable role played by a man we will call “WMK”.

A brief search of the internet shows that DNA can certainly be extracted from the back of stamps and from envelopes:

DNA extraction from stamps and envelope flaps using QIAamp and QIAshredder
Sinclair K, McKechnie VM
J. Forensic Sci. 2000 Jan;1: 229-30

I challenge police to get in touch with the owner of the envelope – and I know that they know who this is – and test the DNA that is most likely contained in it.

But back to our probable perpetrator.

Born in Germany just as World War 2 began, he was indoctrinated by his family in Nazi ideals. Everyone knows what those ideals and beliefs are, so I won’t go into that too deeply here, but suffice to say he strongly believed he was a member of a super race and admires Adolf Hitler to this day; he is now seventy years old.

After a stint in the armed forces he left his home and family and went to live in Toronto, Canada. He never contacted his family in Germany again to our knowledge.

In Toronto, he competed in wrestling, weight lifting and boxing matches, being runner up in the U.S. Golden Gloves competition in the light-middleweight section. He once fought and defeated Stewart Gray. This shows that he was a very strong and athletic man, more than capable of doing the terrible things of which Ivan Milat has been accused and found guilty.

He landed in jail in Canada. His story is that he was involved in a ‘street fight’. However, it is suspected it was something much more serious than this. He was in jail long enough to complete the Higher School Certificate. He was evidently there for several years.

When he was released, he is believed to have lived in both Greece and England for a time. A woman he lived with in Greece was named by him as Antigone.

Then, in 1971 he moved to Australia, travelling on the “Fairsky”. In the days before computer records, no-one picked up on his criminal history. In later years, he would often tell a woman of a 14 year old girl’s obsession with him on board the ship. The woman was very troubled by this story which he kept repeating. She wonders if a 14 year old girl ever came to some kind of harm on the “Fairsky” in 1971.

His first port of call was Melbourne, then he travelled to Mount Isa where he met a woman. This woman was subjected to horrendous violence by him over the next seven or eight years. This is documented in affidavits held by the same person who owns the envelope above. He was jailed over and over for his vicious assaults on her, nearly killing her on many occasions.

They moved to Wollongong soon after they met. The woman finally decided not to see him any more, a courageous act which could have seen her murdered, such were his threats of retaliation.

During the time he knew the woman he was once jailed for stealing a car, among other things. He worked sporadically in southern Sydney, in particular Taren Point, as well as Wollongong.

Following his split from the first woman, he went to work in the Northern Territory and Queensland on several large cattle stations including Brunette Downs, travelling back to Wollongong on various occasions. One of the cars he was known to drive was an orange coloured V8 Holden made in around 1972. This car mysteriously disappeared shortly after he met another woman in 1983. She says he told her that the car had finance owing on it and he planned to leave it in front of the finance company’s headquarters with the keys in the ignition. She doubts this story very much.

Could it be the car contained the blood of murder victims? Something the second woman noticed was that WMK would obsessively clean and scrub the interior of his cars several times a week. Was he trying to get rid of evidence? Or perhaps the orange Holden was a car he had stolen in the Northern Territory that he needed to get rid of before he was caught.

In 2003, the article below appeared regarding two nurses who disappeared in 1980 – Gillian Jamieson and Deborah Balkan. Note the description of a man wearing a floppy black cowboy-style hat. The second woman involved with WMK recalls that he owned just such a hat in 1983. He said he had bought it when he worked on the cattle stations in the N.T. One of the nurses stated to a friend that she would be back later and was going to Wollongong. WMK was living in the Wollongong region at the time.

In 1979, two Warilla girls went missing and have never been found: Kay Docherty and Toni Cavanagh. The last sighting of them was outside Warilla Grove Shopping Centre. WMK lived in Warilla with the first woman at the time and often frequented Warilla Grove.

Unfortunately WMK and the second woman had two children, born in Wollongong in 1986 and 1987. I say unfortunately because WMK abused them from a very young age – in their words to police and counsellors in 1992, ‘since as long as we remember’.

Court documents show he also abused two other children in various ways, including dragging a two year old from his high chair and throwing him across a room. His propensity for extreme violence towards men, women and children is documented – and the documents are still in existence. They formed part of a police investigation into child abuse in 1992-1993, so several copies should be in existence.

Some of the violence he inflicted on the two children from 1986 to 1992 included holding one of them under the water at Woonona Beach until the four year old boy nearly drowned, the reason being that the little boy defiantly said, “I am going to tell Mummy what you do to me.” On another occasion he held a knife to the five year old girl’s throat when she also said she was going to tell. At times he would dress as a woman and take the boy up the main street of Wollongong, forcing him to call him ‘Mummy’. He was also into the occult and owned black attire sometimes worn by followers of satanic religions. According to both children’s evidence he was making child pornography, using the children of other people he knew as well. Quite often when abuse took place, others were present.

When the children did tell their mother what was going on, police were called in right away. It was late 1992. Bodies had been found in Belanglo Forest, but few details had been released. What the children soon told investigators and counsellors would alert police from Task Force Air that WMK could be a prime suspect. The children’s mother was given a Task Force number and her contact was police constable Gae Crea.

The children were interviewed separately. At first they gave few details of the assaults on them, but as the weeks went by the told more and more. They told their mother that WMK had taken them out in the car on several occasions and picked up hitch hikers. He had taken them for a meal, then had taken them to a ‘forest’ where other people were present. They said the forest was a long way from Wollongong and they had fallen asleep in the car on the way there. The children described to police and counsellors, separately so the evidence was not contaminated, the exact method of killing used in the backpacker murders. The method of killing had not been released to the media, so the only people who would know would have been those who witnessed the events. The children had been appointed counsellors in different parts of Wollongong run by two different organizations to make absolutely sure there could be no leading questions that caused them both to say the same things. Separately, they described things in exactly the same ways. The girl recalled that one of the murdered backpackers owned a bag that had the word ‘Abracadabra’ written on it. Another murder victim, a young long-haired woman with either a Welsh or English accent, loved horses and drew a horse on a serviette in a café where WMK took the children and the victim prior to the visit to the forest where the woman was murdered. The children described the look of terror on the faces of the victims as they were killed and they described things that no child of their age could possibly know about, regarding death and dying, unless they had witnessed such a horror themselves.

The children’s mother recalled several occasions when WMK had come to the house and had made coffee for her. She recalled falling into a deep sleep shortly afterwards and woke up in the morning feeling drugged. She didn’t know what to make of this, as she did not suspect WMK of drugging her or of abusing the children. She had separated from him when the youngest was a few months old due to his violence, but did not stop him from visiting the children or taking them out with him. She was too fearful of him to confront him about the suspected drugged coffee. She believes on these occasions when she was drugged the children were taken away from the house by WMK.

Task Force Air was quick to act on WMK and the children’s evidence. They seized a .22 rifle used by him, which was never seen again and they wanted to know the whereabouts of a blue Mazda station wagon which the woman had observed WMK frantically scrubbing inside and out on many occasions.

A few months previously, WMK had demanded that the woman take the station wagon to a wrecker and get rid of it. She hadn’t wanted to, as she had no other car to drive to work. She couldn’t understand it. He told her it was ‘full of rust’ and ‘wouldn’t pass rego’, but it had several months’ rego and it ran well. Fearing another assault, she went along with it, and being the registered owner, she had signed the papers to enable a Corrimal wrecking yard to take the car.

WMK had used the car to take the children out. When the woman wasn’t at work, WMK always had possession of the Mazda station wagon. Later, the children said that one murder victim who was killed was placed in the back of the car and transported somewhere and that blood had been in the car afterwards.

Forensic police went to the Corrimal wrecking yard and examined the car, removing all the inside panels and carpets to be taken away and tested. Initial tests showed human blood in the car. No more was ever heard about this: whether the panels of the car are still in existence and could be re-tested using modern technology is not known.

WMK was seen to have picked up hitch hikers and killed them. He was seen by two children, aged five and six years old when police interviewed them. Both the children separately told exactly the same story regarding the murders. There were witnesses to the fact that WMK is a serial killer.

Yet, amazingly, police lost interest in WMK. They had already made up their minds that the person they were looking for was Ivan Milat. Strangely, Ivan Milat and WMK look quite alike and are the same height.

WMK was subsequently found guilty of two assaults on the children, in Wollongong Court in May 1994. He was jailed for the abuse on the same day that Ivan Milat was arrested on suspicion of being the Belanglo murderer. WMK spent eight months in jail.

During the trial, the girl, then aged eight, described the murders committed by WMK.

The sensational trial of WMK made rivetting nightly news viewing and was the first item on local news channels every night that week in May 1994. The Illawarra Mercury reported a possible link to the Backpacker murders following the girl's evidence of a number of murders committed by WMK in company with others. The children’s mother still has the WIN news coverage on video.

The jurors believed the children. The police evidently did not, and soon discounted WMK as any kind of murder suspect. Why?

Walkely Award-winning journalist Brett Martin decided to document the children’s evidence himself and interviewed them, with their mother’s permission, at home, after Task Force Air had completed their investigations of WMK.

Brett Martin may well still have these tapes. Police may still have the tape recordings of their interviews with the children. If not, no doubt the two counsellors’ detailed notes have been kept a Centacare Wollongong and the Women’s Centre. One would hope so.

I firmly believe that WMK is a serial killer and that he was freed to kill again and most likely has done so more than once in recent years.

Recently the children’s mother asked the girl, now aged 24, if she remembered anything about WMK. She replied “I remember that he killed people, but I try not to think about that any more, it's too terrible.”

With the discovery of more bones in Belanglo Forest, the police should be revisiting this case. At the very least, they should take DNA from WMK and compare it with any DNA found in Belanglo Forest.

I suspect they won’t, as it is my belief people in very high places have arranged a cover-up on behalf of WMK for reasons only they would know.

As this man died on 7/9/14, I am able to show you photos and to tell you his surname was Kasprzyck.



Reliving the horrors of the Ivan Milat case

By John Thompson

Updated Tue Aug 31, 2010 3:29pm AEST

Convicted serial killer Ivan Milat.

"Police are investigating the discovery of human remains found in the Belanglo State Forest".

Seven times I said those words as a former police reporter. Twice I broke the news to the world that another body had been discovered. But that was the second half of 1993.

This week's news of one more discovery has brought the horror of the backpacker serial killings back to the present.

I remember driving into the Belanglo State Forest for the first time. I nearly missed the turn-off. There's only a small sign on the right side of the Hume Highway, heading south from Sydney just past Mittagong.

It's a rough dirt track that goes past a homestead.

I remember trying to imagine what it must have been like to have been one of the backpackers: Deborah Everist, James Gibson, Simone Schmidl, Anja Habschied, Gabor Neugebauer, Joanne Walters and Caroline Clarke.

The sheer terror each of them must have felt when this seemingly pleasant man with small eyes and a beard, who had offered them a lift, suddenly turned off the highway, pulled out a gun and drove into bush far far away from civilisation and any possible help.

Knowing that this track, this bush, were some of the last images each of the young backpackers saw gave me more than a slight chill - to this day it still makes me feel sick.

What gives someone the compulsion to kill like this? And to do it over and over again? How do they live with themselves?

The man who knows most about Ivan Milat and what he did to each of his seven victims is cautioning the public not to draw too many links with the weekend discovery by trail bike riders.

But 18 years ago, there had been much speculation that Milat had killed others and that there could be more bodies in the Belanglo Forest. Indeed, in 2001 the serial killer was named by the New South Wales Coroner as a person of interest in three missing persons cases. And police questioned Milat three years later about the disappearances of two Sydney nurses in 1980.

But the State Forest covers a huge area, and while at the time, up to 1,000 police looked for more victims, they couldn't possibly scour the entire bush.

I remember seeing Milat for the first time, at his bail hearing at Campbelltown Court. It was surreal and disturbing. I recall when he turned around and smiled at the public gallery - almost nonchalantly, as if it were all a joke. Thank God he was finally behind bars.

I imagine he's sitting in his cell in solitary confinement at Goulburn's super max prison, with that same evil Joker indifference about another life lost - whether or not these latest remains belong to one more of his victims.

John Thompson is a senior Sydney-based radio and television news journalist who has twice been a finalist in the Walkley Awards.

Tags: law-crime-and-justice, crime, murder-and-manslaughter, australia
First posted Tue Aug 31, 2010 3:17pm AEST

I was just looking at this story, and it made me think:

John Marsden was Milat's lawyer for 20 years, and in this story this is what he apparently said:

"Mr Marsden said Milat "probably'' killed the backpackers but said he did not act alone."

Could this be associated with the current find?

Is this for real or what?
Whatever gave this p.o.s the right to abuse and assault these innocent people and children and not only that how did immigration allow this person to immigrate and remain in Australia which such an extensive criminal history.
Why has this man not been thoroughly investigated in relation to these murders? Are they saying that all of his victims are liars and deluded?
What are these so called people in high places supposed to be covering up?
This is on the internet with a photo of the mans face for goodness sakes!
We pay salaries of politicians in our taxes to ensure that the vulnerable of society are safe and protected.
Is this what happened in this case?
Think of the lives of these poor kids knowing what this p.o.s did to them and other people.
If you kids are reading this I am sorry for you for what you went through and that the so called experts could not bring this p.o.s to justice for what he did to you and countless other innocent people and if he is a participant in these backpacker crimes may he answer to the unmerciful wrath of God for what he did.
I dont give a shit what people think or say I believe that you are telling the truth.

No wonder governments want internet filters. I believe both this case and the martin bryant case are related. I believe it is all to do with drugs. Government control the drug trade. The murders were practices for the big event which removed guns from Australians. I believe there is another main event coming but for reasons I obviously dont know. There wil be many more innocent victims such as Ivan, martin and those murdered. We are just cattle.

"The government control the drug trade"What a load of SHIT I was in the drug trade for years and got heaps of contacts none of them government.Most of the Herb is grown in doors by criminals who are normal people just got a thing on the side and the pretend maffia do a bit of growing too. Then the speed is done by the bikie gangs and a lot is cooked up by people who use it to make their habbit cheap .The smack mostly by Asian gangs.So who is the government? ASIO? Kevin Rudd ? Juliar Gillard ? Martin Bryant was seen shooting people.

"I remember seeing Milat for the first time, at his bail hearing at Campbelltown Court. It was surreal and disturbing. I recall when he turned around and smiled at the public gallery - almost nonchalantly, as if it were all a joke. Thank God he was finally behind bars."
Could it also be true that he turned to look at his family seated in the public gallery and smiled for reassurance? Ever heard of the saying " To put on a brave face?"

There is one more body in the forrest between the first two crime scenes found.key belonging to connections hotel a big clue!!get coordinates where key was found, find nearest fire trial and search between two sites. also rifle range in area killers freaquented. stangley moved to this site just before bodies were being dumped ie 1989 latest body found on direct route to rifle range another clue!!Also suggest searching area around previous rifle range police have details of where key found!!

Milat pens indignant letter from 'dark side'
Alex Mitchell July 25, 2010

Protesting his innocence ... Ivan Milat

Serial killer Ivan Milat has protested his innocence in a six-page letter from his ''sunless cement cave" in Australia's most secure prison.
The letter to The Sun-Herald reads like Milat's last throw of the dice after losing appeals at every level of the justice system, right up to the High Court.
The former roadworker is serving seven life sentences for murdering seven backpackers in the Belanglo State Forest south-west of Sydney between 1989 and 1992.
Driven mad by isolated confinement and suffocating routine, the 65-year-old has convinced himself the justice system has conspired against him. His waking hours are spent writing letters to courts and judges from the ''dark side'' - his Supermax cell in Goulburn jail - urging a review of his trial, the evidence and his conviction.
"I have been denied natural and judicial justice continually," he writes, referring to his incarceration as "a legal anomaly" and a "miscarriage of justice".
His frustration turned to grisly self-harm in January when he gnawed the little finger off his left hand, wrapped it in newspaper and placed it in an envelope addressed to the High Court's Chief Justice Robert French.
"The court refused to acknowledge my correspondence," he writes. "I end up chew finger off and put it in mail address to High Court.
''A lot of nasty things were said of me for doing that act but what else could I do?"
In the past nine months, Milat has been in correspondence with the High Court in Canberra, the NSW Supreme Court in Sydney, the DNA Review Panel, the Attorney-General's Department and the Independent Commission Against Corruption.
"I have written to the Chief Justice of NSW, Justice Jim Spigelman, about the matter and requested that I go to the NSW Court of Criminal Appeal about the matter and I await His Honour's reply," he writes, using his trademark drawing of The Saint next to his signature.
At the heart of Milat's increasingly desperate appeals are two issues:
1. None of the DNA evidence collected by the police at the murder scenes produced any match with Milat or any member of his family.
2. The police maintained at his 1996 trial that Milat acted alone and offered no evidence that he was in a criminal conspiracy with accomplices. Yet in his final address to the jury, Justice David Hunt canvassed the Crown's "alternative case" that "there was a small group consisting of at least two persons involved in the murders of these seven victims. Each person may have been involved in all seven or in just some of the murders".
During the course of his relentless letter writing, Milat has obtained a letter from the Supreme Court's Justice Peter McClennan quoting from the ruling it was "no part of the Crown case that others may have been involved" in the slayings.
But he has also received a letter from the DNA Review Panel saying "the Crown case was that another or others were also involved in the murders" and, therefore, a re-examination of the DNA evidence would not assist in any claim of innocence.
"I have two legal decisions which contradict each other," he writes. "I have raised a legitimate legal matter about the Crown's primary evidence to prove my guilt."
Of the DNA evidence, he writes: "The Crown said no DNA implicated Ivan Milat. Yet it throws off the DNA evidence by suggesting it was 'contaminated' but I have never seen any proof of it being contaminated."
Milat's brother, Bill, who has long campaigned for his brother's release, told The Sun-Herald: "The police obtained two separate DNA samples from the crime scenes and neither of them match or belong to any of the Milat family.
"The police say that anyone who appeals against their conviction is in denial and that their legal actions are about wanting to be in control.
''What about the five people in the past two years who have been released after serving more than eight years for crimes they did not commit? They were not in denial, they were stating a fact about their innocence."
Bill Milat also referred to "100 per cent accurate evidence" that on the day two of the backpackers were murdered, Ivan was at his mother's home. NSW Corrective Services Commissioner Ron Woodham told The Sun-Herald Milat's appeals for justice were obscene because he had shown no mercy to his victims.
Commissioner Woodham said Milat was old, fragile and losing touch with reality. ''He's in his right place and he'll be staying there,'' he said.

The above comments are evidently from someone who missed the point of the article. Either that or they didn't get that the article isn't really about Ivan Milat, it's about another probably serial killer on the loose.

It would be amazing if one of Australian Indymedia's top-class investigative journalists such as the one above could win the Walkley Award. If this article leads to the arrest of a serial killer, 'Anon' should be nominated.

at least these posts had the guts to show the other side of the coin or are we so conditioned to believing the one sided news/propaganda, there definitely could be other people involved in these murders if he- ivan is guilty why does he continually protest his innocence by such extreme means?
hope to God that these questions are one day laid to rest for victims sake

Submitted by Anonymous (not verified) on Fri, 07/01/2011 - 8:55pm.
Years ago when I was driving to Campbelltown on the Hume for a course I saw a woman being transferred from one car to another. I slowed down cause she looked distressed and stopped. I figured if she ran accross the highway I'd pick her up and take her with me, if mobiles phones where available I would have rung the police. I think one car was a beige 4 cylinder holden torana .But she got in the backseat of the other car and I figured I'd just imagined it. Years later I realised she was the splitting image of the german tourist simone but I had my own problems them. There was certainly more than one male.

The abominable man featured in this article has a history of criminal acts against innocent people declared by his ex-family.
Why has the criminal justice system ignored this information when investigating the belanglo and other murders that Ivan was connected with?
Why isn't his DNA tested and compared with that of the belanglo serial killer/s?
It was stated by the trial judge that ivan may not have acted alone.
How could Ivan have been convicted in the first place if his DNA is not the killer/s?
Why does his brother state that police did not film their attendance to Ivan's property when they took the backpackers belongings from him as evidence against him fuelling the speculation that the back packers belongings were planted there by police?
This person who is no longer that young may have direct or indirect involvement in these crimes and may still walk the streets today while ivan, if innocent pays for these crimes.
Do you feel protected by our criminal "justice" system if Ivan and the belanglo victims haven't?

No one who was directly involved in this case can put forward anything but their opinion and experiences. Only those involved in this case could really know whether ivan is guilty and he must have some degree of knowledge or guilt otherwise we have in prison an innocent man who has been framed in a gross misscarriage of justice.
Several times on this topic site it has been put forward that ivan's nor his families dna matches the dna found on the murdered victims.
So the dna was tested as part of the investigations otherwise how could this claim be made?
It has also been put forward that the dna found on the murdered victims matches that found on another murdered victim discovered years after ivan was suspected and convicted as the killer.
This information alone points toward two things,
the murdered victims had more than one killer,
a murderer is still at large and is not ivan milat.
Can any wonder he is declaring his innocence by such extreme means as biting off his finger?

Statement of Evidence

By Ivan Robert Milat

Statement of Innocence by Ivan Milat
May 15, 1998 - Two Years After Show Trial.

That morning of my arrest and the circumstances the police used to justify it. Paul Onions (crown witness} was given 13 photos to look at and he chose me. He had no choice - I was the only one with the blackhair and the type of moustache, similar to the description he gave to police after he was robbed at gunpoint near the Belanglo Forest in 1990. He looks at photos and then writes out a statement to back up his description.

It was unreal. It was all there, my pepper and salt hair, colour of eyes, etc. I had to agree it was my photo he looked at in 1994, as it was one from 1990. They (police) changed the 1990 description Onions originally gave in Bowral at the police station. At that interview he said his attacker was 6 foot tall, black hair, Merv Hughes moustache aged mid thirties(The original statement Onions made to the police has never surfaced). The eyes of his attacker went from wearing dark sub-glasses to narrow squint eyes. He made the original statement to police 20 minutes after his attack. Onions had been in his assailant's car for over an hour. His first description would be accurate.

It was not until Onions returned to Australia in 1994 that the matter of Yugoslav parents and my divorce were mentioned as part of conversation with Onions robber. I complained that there were no other people in the 13 photos shown to Onions that resembled me in the photo lineup of 1994. The police answer to that was "the description given by witness Onions was sufficient."

They (the Police) found a shirt at mum's place and said it was stolen from Onions. My wife who had left me in 1987 came to court to say she had bought it at K Mart. It was a plain shirt similar to the type road workers use. My wife insisted it was my shirt as I always wore that type of shirt. I can't understand why on that day only, they photographed that shirt and nothing else. MY wife said "yes, that is Ivan's shirt", at the trial. But the police during 1994 visited Onions in the UK and Onions claimed it was his.

Onion's robber drove a vehicle with a special feature in the placement of the spare wheel. Onions and another eyewitness to the robbery corroborated each other on the outstanding feature of the vehicle, the spare wheel, but they were both wrong when it was proved to the court that the wheel on my vehicle could not have been seen by them. This "mistake" was glossed over by the Crown. The judge told the jury it was hard to see how such a mistake could be made, but they should consider the matter. The judge went on to say that they could consider another scenario. " I think the accused stole or somehow got another vehicle of similar make and had the extras the two witnesses had described.

Who did I borrow or steal the vehicle from? A vehicle other than my own was not part of the case. The charges against me were totally circumstantial. The police fitted together a case which was impossible for me to defend. They fitted the crimes to times when I was away from work or weekends. There was much argument on this matter of dates. And because the crimes had been committed 6 years before - I defy anyone to have total recall of their whereabouts at any given time.

The crown then decided on a second scenario, now they said that a group of people were involved in the crimes. They had no idea and were making a circumstantial case on a circumstantial case. What a turn-up! How can you beat a system like that? They were now saying I was part of a group. I have never seen or heard of the police following up investigations into this wild theory put before the court.

There was property at my place including a tent. I knew nothing about it. Then there was a camera - Paul Onions for the crown swore black and blue that the camera was his. I tried to explain that the camera belonged to my sister Shirley who shared the house with me. Then, OOPS! It is discovered that the camera was not manufactured until 1991. Onions had been robbed in 1990. This "small" matter no problem for the crown, they then claimed the camera could have belonged to one of the UK victims.

The tent, was owned by my brother Dick. The tent was doctored to make believe that the tent belonged to a UK victim. There was much argument argument about this tent and identifying marks. When that tent came to light Dick was able to prove where he had bought it. I often wonder why the media never took this issue up in their reporting of the case. I expect the police don't give out many parking tickets to reporters.

I had come to believe in the science of DNA. They had DNA from both the UK female victims. Police took blood and hair samples from me. Human hair found clasped in the hand of one of the UK girls - there was no match with me. No wonder I was confident going into the trial. The car described by the two witnesses did not match mine + the DNA. A week before the matter of the DNA came into the trial the crown came up with a new report on the DNA. It was from the lab that did the tests saying the tests could be flawed. I still believe The first report to be the true one. I insisted that the tests be done again. The crown said that it was not possible - the hairs gone-missing-destroyed during the tests.

What a joke. The so called expert said the samples could have been contaminated. It could not be tested again. I was not happy with my defence counsel. They were way out their depth with the science evidence. Plastic tape used to bind the victims were found at the crime scene. Those ties had no markings on them. At my home the police took similar tapes as evidence. The tapes had markings on them. All of a sudden the tapes from the crime scene had similar markings on them. An expert on the tapes gave evidence that the tapes allegedly found at the crime scene were sold exclusively to organisations like the Roads and Traffic Authority - my employer.

No matter what. I will always profess my innocence.

Best regards Ivan

In my opinion Ivan should be given the chance to appeal his conviction based upon the statement that he has provided and the failings that caused him to be convicted based on circumstantial evidence - lets all hope that the cjs listens, because if he is truly innocent then what is stopping anyone out there being framed for murder.
Is this what we pay our taxes for?
What about the voice of the victims?
Justice can never truly be served to them while these questions remain.
Can anyone imagine what their families have had to go through losing their loved ones in such a futile, senseless, evil manner.
I pray for justice for these people.
Ivan belives that he is innocent and presents a logical case for that.
The question arises of who is the actual murderer/s and why are they free and how many more people have they killed or could kill?
This is an atrocity.

What exactly are you talking about? You have digressed considerably from your first posts "Graham".
I respect that you have an opinion but I dont exactly agree with this opinion.
The fact that you can write your opinion on the internet and enjoy the freedoms of expression that you do to debate your viewpoints means that you are free to speak.
The fact that you can elect your representatives to power and majority rules means democracy not communism, fascism or dictatorship.
The question I put to you was where is the DNA evidence that connects Ivan to these murders, since you appear to have so much credible "insider" information about him why don't you answer please?
PS Ever heard of the long standing NSW state member of parliament Rev Fred Nile? Hmmm?

He who is free from sin should cast the first stone.
I have no shame because I have done nothing wrong.
I do not condone murder of innocent people nor do I condone the framing and incarceration of a possible not guilty person. I am a rational and mentally balanced person and I know what is just and what is unjust.
That is why I commented on the murder of Anita Cobby.
Will you ever answer the question of the DNA?
According to your viewpoint Ivan has managed to completely remove every article of his DNA from the murdered victims.
Are you so sure that he would be released if he was granted an appeal?
Ivan may never get the chance to have the evidence reexamined in an appeal. He has been convicted on a lack of DNA evidence.
To return to the point of the article above - a person? has been witnessed by his own children to partake in the murder and abductions of hitchikers.
Please read the article again, I could pen you an essay but your really just in a state of selective denial and I would be wasting my time.

"WMK was seen to have picked up hitch hikers and killed them. He was seen by two children, aged five and six years old when police interviewed them. Both the children separately told exactly the same story regarding the murders. There were witnesses to the fact that WMK is a serial killer."
"The Illawarra Mercury reported a possible link to the Backpacker murders following the girl's evidence of a number of murders committed by WMK in company with others."
"The jurors believed the children. The police evidently did not, and soon discounted WMK as any kind of murder suspect. Why?"

- Belanglo Murderer DNA Found on Recent Murder Victim

"Ivan Milat was not the only suspect in this case. There were other suspects, in particular one from Wollongong of European origin whose children saw him doing suspicious things. The man from Wollongong had a long history of violence against women and many criminal convictions including convictions for paedophilia. He was obsessed with guns and had been in the armed forces overseas. He looks not unlike Ivan Milat in appearance and is of similar build. This particular suspect's car was seized by Task Force Air and human bloodstains were found in the back. If police really want to reopen the case they could start by comparing his DNA with that found under the victim's fingernails." - JULY 19th, 2005

Police could re-open Belanglo case

Milat lodges 474 Appeal

July 19th, 2005

"Alice Smith"

The Sunday Telegraph (18/7/05) reports that police are considering reopening the Backpacker Murders case.

Friends of Ivan Milat say this would be a good idea, given that there is so little to link Ivan to the case and given the alleged planting of evidence at Ivan's home and the original description of Paul Onions' attacker as a man of some six feet tall driving a car with a spare wheel attached to the back having been conveniently 'lost' by Bowral police and replaced with a new description fitting Ivan Milat, following Paul Onions being shown photos of him by police.

Could it be a co-incidence that the sudden interest by the media in the case has been manipulated by persons behind the scenes keen to see Ivan's latest appeal, a 474 Appeal for a judicial review, quashed as soon as possible?

Police could start by trying to find the perpetrator whose DNA was found under the fingernails of one of the victims. This DNA is not linked to Ivan Milat or any member of his family. This fact is conveniently left out of media reports of the case. In effect Ivan Milat has been cleared by the DNA evidence. As for him attempting to escape from gaol, this has never been proven in court. Ivan says he did not make any escape plans and that swallowing objects was not an attempt to be taken to an outside hospital but to draw attention to the fact that he was receiving no assistance with preparation of his appeal.

Around the time of the attack on Paul Onions, a young man fled from a four wheel drive south of the Belanglo turn off. The vehicle had stopped , and he saw 3 men and a woman emerge from the bush. They were armed and coming toward him. He escapes and records the details to Bowral police. Task Force Air later dismiss his evidence as not being relevant to their backpacker inquiries. There is clear evidence that the police were reluctant to embrace the group killer theory. Was Paul Onions a victim of the group and fortunate to escape the tragedy of what had happened to the other travelers?

However, this attack is the first inkling placing a woman at the crime scenes. It does go some way to explain the sexual nature inflicted upon some of the victims. Female jewelry had disappeared from the victims. Only commonplace camping items were discovered in later police searches. These items appeared to be new and unused and Ivan Milat says they were planted on him.

Candace Sutton from the Sun-Herald reported concerning a strange blonde man who picked up a male hitchhiker in a 4wd. In the rear of that vehicle were chainsaws and other forestry type tools. There were assorted knives. The man fled from the vehicle when the driver began talking about "bodies in the forest" just after passing the Belanglo turn off. The driver had slowed down allowing the fellow to jump from the vehicle.

Task Force Air had a swag of information from drug raids in the local Sutton Forest and general Southern Highlands areas. The police were well briefed on the Who's Who of the local villains.

Police focused initially on the local area when forensics proved what sort of weapons had been used. As early as 1993, the investigation was confining the search to the Southern Highlands. This line of attack changed after the assault on Paul Onions, and the single theory perpetrator took hold. Anything outside that scenario was dismissed. The police had fixed a rough pattern to the movements of the backpackers. This fixation was flawed. It did not leave open the finding of further information on backpackers movements after leaving Sydney.

An 18 year old's body was found in a local forest area during 1992. He was from Bathurst, NSW. It could easily have been assumed that this victim was to be a part of the backpacker case investigation. Task Force Air said no. To place this victim with the others would have meant problems of defining the patterns of the murders. The police did not mention this case in their original brief, although the killing was similar to those at Belanglo.

Bicycle riders Stephen Mangan and Michael Jones found dumped property belonging to the backpacker Gibson. A Ricoh camera was passed on to police on 31st December, 1989. Backpacks belonging to Gibson and his partner were later found by a motorist and passed on to police.

The significance of these findings was closely similar to the finding at Bright, Victoria. The items were discarded to throw any later investigations away from the Southern Highlands.

The crown attempted to prove that Ivan Milat had been working in the Dural-Galston Gorge area and that he had the opportunity to place the items there. But then, there was the problem of the Items discovered at Bright. All of the items were dumped from the police case. The Casula-Liverpool link to the killers was entrenched in the police mind set, that they refused to take into account the possibility they were mistaken. Vital clues and witnesses were being dismissed.

If police did investigate properly they would find a cesspit of lies cooked up by the prosecution which conveniently ignored the facts that:

1. The Bennetton top allegedly taken from one of the
victims was purchased from a Sydney retail outlet.
This evidence was known to both the crown and the

2. Property belonging to Simone Schmidl were taken
from the home of a Ms Murphy at Guildford.

3. Property belonging to Simone Schmidl was found at
Bright, Victoria. Some of these items were later found
at the home of Ivan Milat. How they got there should
be a matter for the Police Integrity Commission.

4. The blue day pack allegedly belonging to Simone
Schmidl discovered at Walter Milat's home could not
have belonged to her. A family photo of the backpack
at Walter's home was taken prior to Simone's death.

5. Arresting detectives were captured by the
television news carrying fully formed cartons into the
Milat home.

6. Ivan and Richard Milat explained to police the
origin of some items at both their homes. Backpacks
held up in court as 'evidence' appeared to be new and
unused. Statements that those brands could only be
purchased in Europe were fabrications.

7. Simone Schmidl's mother was not examined nor a
statement taken from her regarding certain items that
she had earlier identified and were found in Victoria.

8. The incompetent handling of the DNA evidence was
detrimental to the defence case. No description was
led as to the colour of the hairs found in the hand of
one of the victims. Recent re-examination of the DNA
evidence has cleared Ivan Milat and all members of his
family. This should be making headlines - but still
Ivan Milat remains incarcerated.

9. The loss of Paul Onions' original statement coupled
with the original Joanne Berry statement raises
suspicions. These statements were made at separate
police stations. Neither the police nor the witnesses
retained a copy of the original staements. This is
suggestive that there was hiding or destruction of
these documents. In his original statement Paul Onions
had described a man around six feet tall with a spare
wheel mounted on the back of his car. This does not fit
the description of Ivan Milat at all.

10. To depict sightings by credible witnesses as false was
designed to undermine and mislead the evidence that
supported a different pattern to the police theory.

11. The police failed to video record the search of
the Milat residences. This reflects on the integrity
of the police searches.

12. If the second statement by Paul Onions was so
credible, why was Ivan Milat not arrested sooner?

13. Only one item of evidence was produced with a
fingerprint on it. For the police and crown to suggest
that Ivan wiped all of the items free of prints or
wore latex gloves was ludicrous considering the amount
of property concerned.

14. Forensic evidence showed neither the Bowie knife
or the blunt sword found at Ivan's mother's place
could have been used in the attacks on the victims. Of
all the guns seized from Milat family members not one
of them was ever fired in Belanglo Forest. Ivan Milat
maintains a Ruger rifle part was planted in his home
and recent sackings of corrupt police suggest they
were indeed capable of such acts.

15. A vital witness, Jock Pittiway, gave Alex Milat a
backpack. PIttiway also gave a trailer load of items
to Richard Milat. Pittiway should have been
investigated by police.

Ivan Milat was not the only suspect in this case. There were other suspects, in particular one from Wollongong of European origin whose children
saw him doing suspicious things. The man from Wollongong had a long history of violence against women and many criminal convictions including convictions for paedophilia. He was obsessed with guns and had been in the armed forces overseas. He looks not unlike Ivan Milat in appearance and is of similar build. This particular suspect's car was seized by Task Force Air and human bloodstains were found in the back. If police really want to reopen the case they could start by comparing his DNA with that found under the victim's fingernails.


Belanglo Murderer DNA Found on Recent Murder Victim
2006/05/18 - 22:02

Parramatta police are hushing up news that DNA matching that found under the fingernails of one of the Belanglo Forest murder victims has been found on a body recently discovered in bushland.
The difficult testing on the Belanglo DNA in England was only completed two years ago due to advances in technology.

Ivan Milat's family were officially informed that the DNA did not match Ivan Milat or any member of his family, nor did the DNA match any of the known victims. Police explained this by pointing out that the judge in his summing up of the case against Ivan Milat stated that there was no way one person committed these murders alone, and that the murders had a ritual-satanic aspect which would suggest a group of people being involved.

Detective Sergeant Michael Ashwood today led a raid on the late Mrs Milat's Guildford home where one of the Milat brothers, who is handicapped, still lives. Mrs Milat died some time ago. Police were allegedly looking for any weapons, clothing or other objects related to the recent discovery of a woman's body in a shallow grave, a fact which has not been reported in the mainstream media. This murder happened in about 2004, ten years after Ivan Milat was jailed so he certainly was not involved.

A Parramatta detective has admitted to one of the Milat brothers that photos are in the possession of police of two of the Belanglo murder victims visiting an area shortly before their abductions which does not fit the scenario of Ivan Milat picking up victims on the Hume Highway in N.S.W. These photos were kept out of the evidence during the trial deliberately because they confirmed sightings of the girls by railway employees in Albury and confirmed the finding of Simone Schmidl's belongings near the highway in Victoria, where Ivan Milat could not have been, due to the fact that his employer's records placed him at work during that time.

It is hoped that the DNA will match a known criminal whose DNA has been obtained. Useful samples of the DNA of the other Belanglo Murders suspect are held by his ex partner in the form of old type postage stamps on letters he wrote to her, one being a letter from prison denying that he sexually assaulted two children aged four and five years.

Picture: Gabor Neugebauer, whose leather jacket and watch were found in the possession of a policeman who committed suicide after harassing the wife and children of a second backpacker murders suspect, the details of whom have been kept secret even though the ex partner of the suspect gave four hours of evidence into the Royal Commmission into Police Corruption.. The jacket and watch were said by his fiancee to have been obtained by him before the bodies in the forest were discovered.

before you make a judgement,
read this article...

Taxpayers are entitled to have an opinion and scrutinise this case - by the way the article you refer to is slanted and subjective. There was hair found in one of the victims hands and this hair does not belong to Ivan or any member of his family according to forensic DNA testing done in England. Another body was found in the belanglo forest after Milat was imprisoned, with a DNA match to the hair found in the original victims hands.
This can either mean:
(A) the information contained on this website is total bullshit and the DNA did match Ivan Milat and his family the police got their killer.
(B) there is new evidence on this website and this evidence has been revealed to the general public and hidden by the police and is based on the fact that DNA does not match Milat or any member of his family therefore
(C) an innocent man dies in prison for crimes he did not commit and has been framed by high level police and they know this and the identity of the real murderers whos DNA is a positive match to both murder victims.
In order to make a judgement you need all the facts - therefore if the information on this website is fact and Ivans DNA is not the killers there remains legitimate questions to the validity of his conviction and the impartiality and integrity of persons responsible in positions of service to the community and trust in our society - politicians, police and the media.

can i suggest 'Wolf Creek' then perhaps???

"by the way" if milat is innocent he should be able to have the courage and self pride to follow the rules within jail and have enough strength to enjoy life as much as possible. Seriously, cutting off your finger is just pitiful and only someone who has a fascination with gore would consider it sending it to the court as a form of 'protest'

But moving on, the blunt truth is that unless you somehow convince the court that jenny from the tuck shop over yonder is the real serial killer, no one of any superiority is going to listen to your 'facts' or bother to find the time to read these responses

If anyone here actually examined the bodies, was actually there when they raided his house, was actually there in the courtroom when he was convicted, actually physically carried out the DNA sampling, actually interviewed him in jail, actually was his lawyer and actually is currently his prison guard or psychologist or in opposition, was actually the real murderer, then these people are the only people who have the 'facts', who have the 'records', who experienced the 'trauma'. There is a fine line between fact and fiction and the truth is, one article about DNA aint going to help you or any of his supporters prove his innocence.

I now quote yourself anon, the media may be "slanted or subjective", but although you are entitled to 'scrutinize' this case you are currently swimming in a very large pond. The only 'fact' is that the only way closure is going to be gained from this case is if milat spills the beans.

Otherwise, just keep hoping one day you'll meet an actual unicorn

:) xox

your argument is clear and lets hope the retort will be too- you give credibility based solely on the level of direct involvement in each facet of the case, well lets look at it this way newton, who has the most exposure and involvement - ivan milat.
so if ivan milat clearly states that he is not guilty and provides evidence then we can fairly deduce that either way he is telling the truth or he is not - the truth lies somewhere.
he is technically unable and not provided with the resources to combat the case in a fair way because he is no longer given legal aid to do so. he has appealed his conviction to the high court but remains his own represenetative and how did it go for him?
who has the records and who has the ability to manipulate tose records - the very people who he claims framed him and the gathering of the backpacker items from around the nsw and victoria and ending up in one persons home is very suspicious unless you purchased them or they were carried into your home.
there is another thing to consider, lindy chamberlain was australias most hated woman accused of being in a satanic cult by the media, she is actually a christian sventh day adventist and azaria was supposed to have meant sacrifice in the wilderness according to the goons that reported on the case- she served prison time and what did she say all along - it was only until a member of the public came forward with new information the missing piece that she was aquitted having been innocent all along.
this is one dog, but in ivans case we are talking several people all guilty and party to these crimes, he did not act alone it is very clear - dont take my word for it look at what the trial judge suggested.
does ivan fit the killer profile? isnt he an aggressive psychopath with an out of control temper set off by the slightest thing out for blood or is he internalising self harming as an act of attention, a cry for help by a desperate man?
how many prison guards has he attacked, how many prioners has he killed, has he lost his killer instincts because he is locked up.
locked up without the sun and in isolation, if he wasnt pyschologically unstable before he certainly is on his way there now?
the superiors can give him some legal assistance for starters and treat him like every other australian citizen. give hin the right to appeal his conviction based on the findings of dna evidence on the backpacker victims on another victim that was murdered after he was in jail.
proper legal assistance and a reinvestigation of the case and royal commission involvement of the previous one allowing other witnesses to come forward about similar incidents involving other people. we should not have to resort to typing up blogs on websites, this is a failure of the legal and criminal justice system that these people have no where else to go. as for wolf creek or any other media propaganda hollywood melodrama they are for people like you with no common sense. :(

Ivan Milat states that he is innocent and will always try to prove his innocence. The dna of the killer does not match him or any other member of his family.
Read his statement, read the findings of Parramatta police and the trial judge. These were the experts that have brought relevant new information to light. I disagree with your ideas that no one of superiority is reading these posts. I believe that if there are enough good people in positions of trust that would be able to allow a decision for the high court to hear his case based on the new evidence/information.
How can someone kill someone yet not leave a trace of DNA on the victim.It is impossible, unless the person was shot and the victims were not just shot.
As for the unicorn mythology, it is quite arrogant of you to assume that anyone would be delusional and hoping to meet a unicorn or some other mythical creature simply because they think critically and state the facts how they appear.
Followed by your smile, hugs and kisses?
It is very strange to suggest such a thing, namely since the legend involves a hunter leading a beautiful virtous woman with a pure heart into the deep woods, in order to tame and catch the wild beast, the unicorn, then allowing a unicorn who is attracted to her purity to come to rest in her bosom and lap in order to catch it. If it could not be caught this way it would be because the woman did not have a pure heart.
The unicorn would then still be led to her and turn on her and stab her to death with its horn. You are the one who is living in a very macabre dream world.
It would be so highly innapropriate of a person of your high standing to be using his position to break the law and invade the privacy of decent law abiding citizens.
There is more courage in Milats pinky than in you from head to toe.
God sees the heart.

Are you kidding? When you constantly apply for appeals to be heard and appeal the courts decisions to protest all he has to protest against and he isn't even getting a fair chance to do as such. He'd be like I'll get off a finger then just maybe get heard nothing else is working or has worked. He hasn't been heard and under new evidence he should have the same right as any other criminal. When new evidence came to eye in the Lindy Chamberlain case she was allowed her day in court. DNA is the contributing factor in every case where it is possible. I say what's there to loose. He can only be given more time or if found not guilty then be allowed to walk free. The courts are working daily anyway so I can't see why this is so much money. He's been under 24hr surveillance since he was put in prison so therefore that cost can't be a contributing factor at all. 

person above, i agree with you

and for someone who believes 'taxpayers are allowed to voice their opinions' making personal attacks towards people who don't agree with your own is just selfish and rude. Also according to the Bible, God loves everyone equally.

This whole thing is just messed up. It's at the point where Milat is considered a threat to the public and his relative has in no doubt hyped up this reputation. Considering no other body's have been discovered belengalo forest in last 5 years, apart from the one last year due to the milat's junior, one can assume within intention that if not Milat, the person/s responsible for these crimes have stopped their act or died themselves.

Within any justice system there will always be discrepancy, but loosing one life due to murder takes a toll on many. In this case seven plus have been lost. If for the publics safety and nothing else, considering that declaration by the jury that milat is guilty, he belongs in jail.

As for his killer instinct, these words are taken from the mans mouth:

ORIS MILAT – OLDER BROTHER: Sometimes Ivan, when he's seen a serious situation, he would think it funny. He'd just laugh at it and think it was funny.
NEWS REPORT: Authorities believe at least two hundred and fifty people, most of them children, died in the Russian school siege.
PHONE RECORDING OF IVAN MILAT: I see they sorted that Ossetian problem out, you know, the Russian problem. They went in there with guns firing, they killed about two hundred kids (laugh).
PHONE RECORDING OF IVAN MILAT: Yeah, they didn’t muck around.
PHONE RECORDING OF IVAN MILAT: This is what the reports are saying. Yeah they started yesterday.
PHONE RECORDING OF IVAN MILAT: And boom, boom, boom.
PHONE RECORDING OF CAROLINE MILAT: Oh God, oh that’s horrible.
PHONE RECORDING OF IVAN MILAT: They don’t muck around (laugh). But jeez they made a mess of the place.
PHONE RECORDING OF IVAN MILAT: Oh yeah, it’s like Baghdad the way that school building looks now.

Not a laughing matter, Ivan.

To the author of the above comments directed to anonymous, claiming that I am selfish and rude.Your comments are irrelevant, have no basis in fact and you are a little too sensitive and too involved in what I have to say. In fact your a little too creepy for my liking.I am entitled to an opinion.
Let's get relevant again-
Please read the below, yet again:
"The DNA of the killer which was found under the fingernails of the victims does not match either Ivan Milat or any member of his family.
This alone should be evidence enough to enable him to be granted a new trial."
If this were anyone else other than Ivan Milat, would they be given the opportunity for a retrial in this country? One can assume yes.
This is at the basis of my opinion and the opinion of many others that I post for. His family obviously support his statement of innocence, excepting one of them and so do the people who have experienced first hand harassment, stalking and intimidation from several persons in the style of what Ivan was supposed to have committed.
You are obviously at a loss because you fail to do anything constructive with the truth.
At least some of us people who are rude according to you, have the courage to bring forward their opinions. They do not sit on their high horses spying on people's telephone conversations and lives in general, living in a fantasy land.
How LOW of you to be releasing telephone conversations that are private calls between Ivan and his family.What have you proven? Is Ivan professing his guilt in the murders?
I dont care if he is in prison he isnt committing offences there, he is a model prisoner and besides isnt this man still a human being and entitled to his dignity and privacy?
I doubt very much he retains much emotional and mental balance living in this hell and I think if you had any decency yourself you would understand that. He is not fantasising about the murders, by wishing he were there he is commenting on the murders and I doubt being as polarised as he is that he has much respect for any justice anywhere. Now dont misquote me or get me wrong. I think it appalling that he laughs ( if he does actually laugh which I doubt ) as I think it appalling that you laugh at him , I highly doubt that he laughs at all in that conversation. Whereas I know that you laugh because you, yourself boldly state that you do, so gimme a break and respond to the questions put to you in my post, if you think that you can answer them that is.
Where is the protection we are supposed to be having as a society from his supposed danger?
People go missing all the time, do you suppose all the psychopaths out there go on holidays as the rest of us do?
As for preaching to me about God, how about Ivan Milat,and Jesus' repsonse to the thief on the cross?
If Ivan were to commit himself to Jesus Christ in repentance of his sins and follow the laws of God he would be acceptable to God.
What is not acceptable to God is the travesty that this case is.
His arrest, his conviction, his trial the investigations,the manipulated evidence, the media, the self interested pollies, this alternative suspect and his abominable behaviour, the DNA its all a travesty.
There is so much relevant information that could easily be brought forward in a new trial.
But how does Ivan get that opportunity when he is denied legal assistance by the politicians , police judiciary and media - everyone is against this man.
Dont think that false imprisonment has never happened before in Australias history because it has, many times.
Use your position to enable justice to be done, not only for Ivan but for the young people who died at the hands of these abominations.
As for the belangalo forest, there are many national and private forests and everytime there is an arsonist lit bushfire I am sure much evidence is destroyed.
Ivan has been in gaol for quite some time, there was another body found that had the killers DNA on it several years after Ivan was incarcerated. Where was this WMK during this time - he was out in the community and propably still is living a free life doing God knows what?
You do not appear to understand the principles of justice and compassion which is self less love, the pain of the loss of these young people can only be felt if you have experienced a similar loss yourself or have come face to face with some of the evil that was involved.
There are no lies here, there is plenty of evidence all it takes is for a few good people to stand up and fight for justice at the benefit of all of us.
The man will always profess his innocence and for good reason, he knows that he is.

WMK is not "probably still living a free life" - he's dead. The author of the original article pointed this out at the end, it's why he was able to list the surname and show his photo.

And whether you accept it or not, your attitude to some of the other comments was certainty unnecessarily aggressive. To insult other people while professing to know God, is to show Christianity in a poor light. Jesus disagreed with many people but he did so in a respectful manner & wants us to do the same.

There are many strange inconsistencies about the investigation & the trial, however to my mind, these do not discount the fact that Ivan Milat was involved, they only point to the idea that he was not acting alone.

It certainly sounds very likely to me that WMK was involved, I only wonder why there is no mention of noone ever investigating whether he & Ivan or the other Milats knew each other. It seems a logical line of inquiry to me.

There are some on this forum who seem to see Ivan Milat as some sort of victim. While it is clear to me that the police may have made a mistake in focusing so much on him to the point of ignoring other very good & relevant leads, it is also clear that Ivan was no innocent. He was obsessed with guns as were his entire family and he had been convicted of other violent crimes in the past - including rape. Try not to feel too sorry for him, even if he wasn't involved in the Belanglo murders, which I have every confidence he was, he is still a very shady character & his being in prison is no doubt saving others from unfortunate run-ins with him.

i don't actually agree with the person above being 'Submitted by Anonymous (not verified) on Mon, 24/10/2011 - 2:36pm.'

another person submitted a article about his nephew that has gone and i agree with that.
Sorry for inconvenience

this is shocking unbeleivabale :O
MMA Forum

Ivans relation pleaded guilty to murdering a person in the Belanglo state forest and said "you know my family thats what we do" need we say anymore?

A shocking crime on an innocent person in cold blood by no doubt motivated by the stigma and persecution endured by anyone carrying the Milat name. Its no escuse for the murder.

In Ivans own words for the sake of relevance to his own condition -
"Dear Premier,

I write to you about your governments continuing prejudicial attacks upon me in which you are denying me any social justice and are discrediting me in the minds of the public. Your actions to intimidate anyone involved, including Judges who are involved in decisions concerning applications made to the High Court further deny me social justice.

Your Ministers and Heads of Departments break laws; lies come from their mouths to prove that everything I do is simultaneously a sign of guilt or an attempt to escape. The NSW government use me as the stalking horse to undermine my few rights to natural justice.

The Police brief the media to announce a breakthrough in the investigation of a serious crime with the news that Ivan Milat did it, and supply the media with details and photographs to implicate me as the offender. To give more weight that an actual investigation took place in the matter the Police lie further by saying they went into Goulburn Prison and questioned me over the matter. The media acts on this police supplied information and broadcasts the news about my involvement in this crime and then the Police sit back, their mission accomplished there was no actual Police investigation only a conspiracy to instil in the minds of the public that I am responsible for this crime.

This conspiracy has a number of benefits to the Government as it gets recognition from the media that the government is continuing its law and order policy that the police are solving terrible crimes and the relevant Ministers bask in the glory. The Police Commissioner appears as a leader of a world class Police team.

The only aim is to deny Ivan Milat a chance to properly appeal his convictions. Your Government campaign has involved all parts of heads of Government services to vilify Ivan Milat. The director of the Premiers Office who arranged through a number of Heads of Government Departments to illegally obtain confidential medical files of Ivan Milat for the sole purpose to brief the media to overcome the attention that Ivan Milat was receiving from some sections of the community over his attempts to gain access to the basic means to attempt an appeal to the High Court. The Government in a stage-managed event used the Hon John Watkins MP to say in the Legislative Assembly of State Parliament on the 6th March 2001, that it was some plan of Ivan Milat to escape.

The vilification of Ivan Milat went on at irregular intervals the Police would announce that Ivan Milat was responsible for some previously unsolved crime. The late announcement was on the 8th December 2003, and like previous Police announcements concerning Ivan Milat was designed solely to prejudice my High Court Appeal.

I refuse to accept this government inspired campaign against me there is little I can do in the way of protesting this conspiracy by using channels to challenge this act by the government.

I refuse to accept this government denying me basic civil social justice, by denying me a chance to appeal my wrongful convictions. I am proud to die for my beliefs that I was framed for the Government that my High Court Appeal will not be interfered with at Political level and that I have access to the Court to present my case, the matter of my fate rests in your hands Mr Premier


Ivan Milat"
Enough said?

Hello Indymedia!
Firstly, an above anonymous person was called "low" for referencing a telephone conversation. I have read the article containing the transcript before. The phone conversations were recorded with Milats permission and the permission of his family by the creditable ABC program 'Australian Story". Hence, the author of that comment was not spying or prying at all. Yet i wonder, how does one find it acceptable to publish personal letters addressed to the Premier that should have been kept between Ivan and the government??

I am confused as to the legitimacy and the legality of the article above. When was it published, yet more importantly, how are you getting access to this sort of information? As it is not publicly credited, how do we know it is fraud? It would be ironic to publish illegal information on a forum that is challenging the nature of the criminal system and the dynamic of truth vs reason.

More importantly, perhaps this case should be reopened? Let it be reinforced that i myself think he is guilty, but if nothing for public safety, after reading above posts i find it doubtful he could have acted alone. By reopening it, it isn't guaranteeing Milats release yet it is enabling the public to perhaps be free of one or multiple killers. Instead of reopening the 'Ivan Milat' case they should reopen the 'Belangalo Murders' case to reinforce to the public that despite the case is reopened, this isn't a 'get out of jail free card' for Milat.

I particularly agree with this comment posted on another indymedia forum regarding the belangalo murders. It follows:

"Re: Ivan Milat: The Evidence, by the late investigator Brian ...
Submitted by Anonymous (not verified) on Wed, 24/11/2010 - 10:48pm.
Now after many years, yet another slaughter has occured in the belanglo state forest, doesn't it seem strange that a relative of ivan milat has been charged with the brutal slaying of a young teenage boy, seem's to me that this sick inherited gene has now been passed on to the third generation of milats.

In view of the recent murder that has transpired at belanglo, three teenagers where involved and charged, but the one that was charged with the actual murder (slaughter) of the 17 year old victim is a third generation relative of ivan milat.
His modus of operandi is that he had to have an audience to witness the display of power over a defenceless victim, fortunately in this particular incident, one of the accused went and told the police what had transpired the night before, if he had not done so, this matter could have been treated as a missing persons case, unresolved for many months if not years rather than coming to a climax as it has. Could this relative of ivan milat have given us insight, as to what previously may have transpired in the late 1980's, early 90's. Is it possible Ivan milat had an accomplice or accomplices waiting in the wings as he brought his prey into the belanglo human slaughter house. Doesn't it strike people as odd that one of his victim's was shot 10 times in the head, could this be a case of ivan firing the first 2 or 3 initial shot's then passing the same weapon to the other accomplice or accomplices to have there turn. I believe that this recent slaying could prove to be a template of what may have transpired during the murderous reign of ivan milat. I think it is high time that a new investigation should be re-opened into the possibilities that ivan did not act alone.
1. Relative of Ivan milat took accomplices with him.
2. This same relative used the same state forest to commit his crime.
3. This Relative of milat is a minor, what of the other late teen milat minor's at the
time of ivan's trial, were they questioned or cross examined by the police.
In view of the events now unfolding 20 years later, it show that a milat minor
is capable of carrying out a horrific crime, similar of those attributed to ivan milat.
4. If this is the third generation of milat's, what of the second generation milat's
have they been screened during the DNA testing. they would be men and women in their
30's now.
5. This same relative of ivan milat, took 3 people with him, but only one weapon, every victim
that ivan milat shot, were shot with the one firearm.
6. During the time of ivan, there were reported findings of alchohol and cigarette butt's located at
the various crime scenes, ivan was reported as to being a non-drinker and non-smoker, but
his accomplice or accomplices may have been. The police report states in regard to the more recent
murder, that the accomplices of the relative of ivan milat went to the belanglo state forest to drink
and smoke celebrating the victims birthday, unfortunately for the victim, it would be his
last birthday.
7.It has been reported that the victim was a sympathetic supporter of the milat clan. How he expressed his
sympathies for the milat family in light of the horrendous crimes that ivan commited, isn't it a shame that
 sympathy killed him.

Ivan has been firmly protesting that he is innocent of the crimes that he was tried and found guilty for, during his
stay at golbourne's super max prison cell. In light of the recent events, i believe that his not guilty plea has
somewhat now been completely erroded.”

I think now the word 'innocent' should be reassessed. Perhaps Ivan is playing on this word. Perhaps as the article above states, he was an accessory to murder, hence he observed the murders but did not take part in them, claiming himself innocent. Or, was responsible for shooting the victims, a reason why the DNA does not match.

Either way, I think the public is now incredibly fearful of the name 'milat' particularly following his relations claim that "you know my family thats what we do” and even if Ivan is found inncoent I am somehow doubtful that this fear will go away.

So by far means, reopen this case, because if this WMK person or another murder is still wandering around, they ought to spend the rest of their days in golbourn.

God Bless the families of the victims and lets hope that one day they will be able to find peace

its not classified information its on a public website - this is the comprehensive website on ivan milat - referenced by persons who new WMK.
if your theory of the milat family being accomplices is correct then their dna would be at the murder scene, it does not appear anywhere there.all the murders have the same signature of the same serial killer/s, they were not all shot.
it would be nice to know who were the men alex milat saw driving into belanglo in the 4 wheel drive with the two women in the car.
ivan states he doesnt drink or smoke there were bottles of alcohol everywhere as were cigarette butts at the crime scenes. there were stone altars and stone circles near the crime scenes - all occult artifacts.
WMK was allegedly heavy drinker and smoker and according to childrens reports alleged peadophile, violent criminal and participated in satanic rituals.
read for yourself and yes the victims of this travesty deserve justice, not before ivan or this other person dies. i hope the truth comes to light one day soon, to the victims of this travesty you are in our prayers, God be with you all.

hope before ivan and this wmk dies the truth comes out. so many people are missing in nsw alone. there has to be answers to what happened to them.

I remember reading on gaiaguys (not sure of spelling or whether is was .net etc) a few years back (I think around the time wolf creek was released as it spurred on some interest) about who I think you are reffering to as WMK. It was a very unorganized website that has since been pulled down and it had a very long article form a woman that said that she had a husband that fitted the desctiption of Ivan etc etc and that her children were taken into the forest etc. Just want to clarify is this the same man we are talking about.

Also a few other things that I would like to point out from what I remember reading on that website some years ago was that he gave the children bunny rabbits when he would take them into the forrest and tell them to give them names and then he or the children would then kill the rabbits. I also remember reading something along the lines of that the wife say someone waiting in front of her farm in a car with a firearm to threaten her or what have you.

Is the literature on gaiaguys still available somewhere? Has someone saved it? I must say it was the most interesting thing I have ever read on the internet.

If these children witnessed the back packer murders,why are they not speaking up now.The children would be 25 years old now and it is not like this WMK is a threat i think i read his about 70 years old.Not too mention how could anyone in their right mind think a 4/5 year old could witness such a brutal murder and come home and sleep at night and not tell mummy for a few weeks.This Alice is now a outlaw bikie and still has not had a job done on WMK for all this stuff he did to her children,the story is hilarious.These so called children witnessed brutal and violent murders yet stay quiet,she says they were interviewed and all that but where is all this proof of anything she says.This is the internet and people say all sorts of bullshit,but if people believe that these kids witnessed those terrible murders yet walk around now still protected by ""Alice Smith"" yet WMK is now a senior citizen,these children would have immense psychological damage almost unrepairable.So why dont the children come forward,with all this free social media available,im sure Alice gets on here and bumps this thread often.

I believe this is what I was talking about in the previous post

Yes this is the link that is correct, anyone should and could read it and then make up their own mind if Milat is the real or sole perpetrator of these crimes.
Children of wmk talk of their terror of him and his perpetual violence to two sets of partners and children, him picking up hitchikers, male and female and murdering them in the exact methods that the backpackers were killed and the filming of the murders, with a group of people, men and women in what appeared to be a satanic ceremony of sorts.
This corroborates with the evidence that was found at the scenes of the crimes, the stone circles and the altar, all satanic artifacts.
There was also a tragedy on a ship that wmk was travelling on to come to australia that included a young girl falling overboard.
The authors of the article about this ship called the fairsky believe he was involved in a sinister way.
He was also living in the areas that the two girls from warilla went missing.One doesn't need to be a crime scene detective to see the pattern, just needs to think critically.
wmk was primary suspect in belangalo murders, but then attention was diverted to milat. this was because of the paul onions statement which some are saying was changed to fit milats description.
The article above asks why wmk's dna is not extracted and tested from an envelope that has been given to his ex partner, and compared to the dna found on the victims which is the murderers.If wmk is not connected to belanglo murders it will prove that quite easily by not having a match.
They are putting forward the belief that Ivan Milat is innocent of the murders and has been framed. Either these witnesses all wmk's children and ex partners are pathological liars and attention seekers, dramatic actors that have abused themselves in every way possible just to make up this elaborate hoax or they are victims of this man and are telling the truth.
You be the judge.

I read this link
You have to be joking if this is what you base Milat being set up on.
This sheila thinks she is a big bad bikie with tattoos and calls herself a out law I think she has been sampling too much of the speed the bikies cook up and sell, she has been abducted by aliens,stalked, and has had hit men after her,Paranoia from drugs does this to you mind I have seen fucked up bikie moles like this many times they all believe the shit they speak, speed has a way of stuffing your brain.
Then she talks about her ex husband sexualy molesting her kids if she is what she says a out law that has no regard for the law and uses shot guns,Why is her ex still alive?this sheila lives in La La land.

You hit the nail on the head "pathological liars and attention seekers" is what most women that look up to bikies are. Bikies are as weak as piss by themselves thats why they join a bikie gang so they can pretend to be tuff, all the bikies I know that I went to school with were as weak as piss at school and now they are trying to make up for it in Adult life by pretending to be a "big bad bikie" I think this nut case of a woman is doing the same thing.I can just imagine this woman skinny rotten teeth with bad skin from all the speed she takes, Tattoos and swears like a trooper and a mouth as big as Luna park.Ivan Milat has some classy people batting for him.Just throw away the key, and do us all a favour, cut your shit and grow up.

Dear anonymous,
So according to your argument the other partner that reports the same thing about wmk is also a bikie on drugs and so are his two sets of children from two seperate relationships?
why dont you do yourself a favour and buy some reading glasses because no matter how many times you read the same information you still cannot see or make sense of it?
Not everyone reading this information is on drugs and claim it as truth.
Maybe you were on drugs yourself in your younger days or still are that is why you are such an expert on people that you allege are? Dunno?
In effect you deny the reports of innocent children that were victims of years of documented violence by both police, media and courts and counsellors by this wmk person, so sorry but something is seriously wrong with that.
The dna on belanglo murder victims before and after Ivans incarceration does not match Ivan or any other member of his family- why?
You never answer this question because its easier to poke fun at others appearance and life circumstances than actually identify that this is a serious flaw in this case.
It takes a lot of courage to stand up for what you believe is right despite everyone believing you are not and the PTB declaring the opposite ( sounds like someone you know )? That is why there are only two conclusions you can draw upon, either she is lying or she is 100 per cent correct. You be the judge.

"That is why there are only two conclusions you can draw upon, either she is lying or she is 100 per cent correct".There is a third conclusion and that is, she is that fucked up on Drugs that she thinks what she made up in her own head is true this is not a lie just a typical Paranoid Druggie.People following her,UFO's taking her away,and the Fuck the World Outlaw mentality I have seen it all before and No i,m not on Drugs and never have been, but seen some fucked up units in my time and this Out Law bikie sheila is a classic example of a drug fucked looser.If you want to take the word of this person thats up to you but do your self a favour and use your brain.

"In effect you deny the reports of innocent children that were victims of years of documented violence by both police, media and courts and counsellors by this wmk person, so sorry but something is seriously wrong with that".I don't deney or agree with this statement but I will say there are a lot of sicko people like that out there but that does not make them the the killer does it.What a dumb argument.

The dna on belanglo murder victims before and after Ivans incarceration does not match Ivan or any other member of his family- why? With out knowing what Lab these test were done at or who performed them it is hard to say 100% for certain that the DNA results are correct DNA has sent many innocent people to Gaol because it is not 100% unassailable.What do you know about DNA testing? I don't think people should be sent to gaol or released from gaol on this evidence alone because it has it's faults just like your story.

what story are you referring to? what I am referring to is the information documented on this website and the website that you refer to regarding the bikie druggo as you so kindly put it.
the dna was tested to the current standards and acceptable for admission as evidence in a court of law.
Ivan does not drink or smoke, nor does he display violent tendencies in gaol- criminal violence against humans being a precusor to the pyschological type of serial killer terror displayed in belanglo.
was ivan a member of satanic cult? as that is what was evidenced at the scence of the crimes and this is what the children describe wmk as being involved in as well as piking up hitchhikers and murdering them in forests with other people around.
You are alleging she is on drugs ( how did you test her for that) the drugs obviously have no affect on her cognition or mental faculties in particular her memory.
All I ask for is the truth and for the record, although I am not in law enforcement I express somewhat degree of compassion for my fellow human beings and their sufferings. I have a brain and a heart and am sickened and saddened to the core at the suffering of the victims that have been affected by this travesty.

i think she is telling the truth.
i think her children and the other children and ex partner of wmk are telling the truth.
i would disagree with your comments about her being unattractive and all bikies being unattractive.
i think you have an agenda to keep defending the guilty and trying to attack and defeat by abuse anyone who disagrees with your opinions through logical arguments.
have you managed to figure out how ivan murdered,detained and sexually assaulted the backpackers and left, hair and shin, cigarette butts,bullet casings, rope and empty alcohol bottles at the crime scenes, yet to this day stands convicted of consecutive life sentences without one shred of dna evidence linking him to these things?

Everyone is entitled to their opinion at that moment in time based upon what they know and understand to be reality.
Either WMK ex wifes and children are lying and looking to destroy his reputation, or he is involved in what they say he is and as they claim they were direct witnesses to backpacker slayings.
Also they allege that these slayings are ritual murders conducted in a satanic ceremony.
Also claims made that Ivan is not guilty of the murders and was framed allegedly by police coverup involving media and pollies.
There to this day remains not one shred of dna avidence confirming ivan dna or his family dna present on the murder victims and another persons dna found on belangalo victim body and another body is confirmed.
Draw your own conclusions.
What price was the lives of these young people that as a human being we should not consider their loss immense, to speak up in compassion for what their families were put through for this insane sickening abominable blood lust?
Whoever is guilty cannot estimate the wickedness they have caused their fellow man, being Ivan or anyone else guilty of these crimes to play God with the lives of these people.
If Ivan is innocent, one day the truth will be revealed, for the guilty dont sleep well at night.
Rest in peace backpackers.

The following post is simply speculation on my part, merely my own opinion at this moment in time

What a tangled web, eh ? On the old Gaiaguys coverage of the case (linked to via the site of the ex-partner of 'WMK') a witness named 'Polglaise' is reported as claiming he was present when Milat and a 'relative' arrived at the home of Milat's disabled brother. 'Polglaise' reportedly claimed he'd admired a knife belonging to Milat and whilst examining it, he noticed a sticky residue. Upon asking if the residue was kangaroo or other blood, he was reportedly informed it was 'human' and advised that Milat could take a person's head off with one blow. To this, Milat is reported to have replied that the 'relative' was only able to kill using bullets.

Macabre humour of the kind indulged in by the Milat brothers ? Total fabrication scripted by either Polglaise and/or the police ? Polglaise apparently died in a vehicle accident prior to Milat's trial, so we'll never know.

If factual though, it damns Milat and 'relative', doesn't it ? As does the reported comment of Milat's disabled brother who allegedly claimed the family was concerned Milat had returned to his old ways. When Polglaise reportedly asked " You mean robbing people ?', Milat's brother allegedly replied, ' Worse '.

Then there's the issue of 'WMK'. As someone asked earlier in this thread, if the mother of the children who were abused is now closely associated with bikers, how is this 'WMK' still walking and breathing ? Let's dispense with the bikers altogether and ask which parent (or abused child become adult) could, in all conscience, permit WMK to remain on the planet as a risk to anyone else, if the claims about him are true ? Maybe a parent would control their righteous rage during the years their abused children were dependent upon them. Obviously, the parent would not risk the children being placed in the custody of a paedophile father, as would happen if the 'good' parent were imprisoned for removing WMK 'with extreme prejudice' for the benefit of the planet. However, those children are grown now, are adults and could cope on their own. They reportedly gave investigators more than enough evidence to put WMK away for good. In other words, they played it by the book, years ago. And all that transpired was a few months imprisonment, after which WMK was set free to stalk, threaten and do as he chose, according to his ex-partner's online claims.

At that point, for me, the gloves would have come off. If anyone had done to my children even a tenth of what the mother claims WMK did to her children, WMK would have been worm-food years ago. I wouldn't have been buying properties. I'd have been buying hitmen, one after another, until the abuser's head was in my possession, shrunken to a handy paper-weight size, being kicked around the garden at least twice a day. Or maybe I'd hang it inside the toilet bowl. Let it be said, though, that I'd have resorted to hitmen only if I were paraplegic myself. Otherwise, vengeance and justice would have been mine, personally, after which the chips could happily fall where they may as far as the law is concerned

Yet the mother and her permanently traumatised adult children are content to live under WMK's foul cloud ? They remain in the same location as he ? The children of his previous relationship likewise, and their mother also (whose uterus WMK allegedly caused to 'fall out') ? The police, media and child-services investigators grant WMK untouchable status ? The victim-family's biker friends vent their outrage by polishing their machines and respect WMK's right to breathe and whine ? And WMK's 'shadowy allies' have the resources to arrange visitations of massive blue lights and alien abduction scenarios -- yet they're powerless to arrange for WMK to have a heart-attack or car accident ?

Having devoted my time to as much information as possible during the past few days, it seems to me (willing to be corrected, though) that it's a case of six of one, half a dozen of the other :

* Yes, from information presented, it does seem the police have behaved suspiciously.

* It appears solicitors are scared to divulge much and rush to retract the little they've revealed.

* It seems the media has been highly selective in their reporting.

* It seems apparent Milat has taken the fall for one or more groups.

* It would seem the family-Milat is not as they've presented themselves, if we accept 'Polglaise's' allegations.

* It appears Milat was just one of several murderers, based on claims made by survivors who had been picked up by a variety of men in 4-wheel vehicles.

* It seems one or more police-officers were suspiciously involved, based on reported claims by the ex-girlfried of a suicided officer who had (still unexplained) items belonging to murdered, overseas backpackers, prior to discovery of the victims' bodies.

* It seems clear that NSW and probably Victorian police were at least as busy concealing evidence as they were in finding it.

Even suburban detectives in Sydney in the 60's were able to arrange 'deals', whereby one perpetrator (for relatively mild crimes) could take the rap and do prison-time, thus allowing the other to continue paying 'a fee' to the detectives for continuance of same and other crimes. The only unforgivable crime, apparently, was failure to pay-up to those corrupt, public-servant, taxpayer-employed police/detectives.

It's to be wondered, therefore, if Milat entered a similar agreement to take the rap. Did his solicitors know this and was this the reason they attempted to implicate Milat's family, rather than such accusations being (as claimed) a 'last desperate attempt to get Milat off ' ?

And was there fear, real fear (on the part of non-Milat members of a murderous-group) that those other Milats would not go down quietly, but would instead blow the cover of all those involved who -- unlike the Milats -- *did* have much to lose in terms of reputation, position, wealth and privilege ? I think it's a theory worth serious consideration. It would explain why -- despite police allegedly acknowledging their suspicions re: various Milats -- that those Milats have been permitted to remain at liberty. The reason/excuse for not pursuing their suspicions re: various Milats is reportedly cited by investigators as being, ' Not enough evidence'. Which isn't persuasive and does nothing to reassure the public

So then we come to Milat and his alleged 'harsh grey cell' type existence. Such reports doubtlessly appease (as intended) those convinced of Milat's guilt as a lone serial-killer. Such people want him to suffer and are cheered by reports of his prison-misery. If Milat did a deal and took the fall for murderous ghouls who continue to move and walk amongst us (and who perhaps run boys' homes, sit in Parliament and feature in the social pages, etc.) then he may very well be enjoying privileged prisoner status. He may even spend considerable time outside in the real world or be supplied with a selection of young victims delivered to his luxury cell, as reportedly was the case with the notorious paedophile, decades earlier. The muslim rapist-gang were discovered to be enjoying 'conjugal visits' with their girlfriends in purpose-built luxury chalets, remember, when we the gullible tax-payers (who funded such generosity) were gulled into believing the Carr government had sentenced them to half a lifetime of 'miserable, top-security grey cell' type existences such as is reportedly being suffered by Milat.

They're all liars, in my opinion. Not a straight one amongst them, from the police to the media to the government or those who make their living in courtrooms -- all the way down to degenerates who get their erections from stealing the lives of kids under cover of a forest and those pathetic loser friends and family who cover for them. A dirty bunch, all of them. Not one we can trust or rely upon.

It's like a highway -- one side is the public and victims and on the other side of the median-strip drive the victimisers, the crooked politicians, the mens-group sickoes, the legal fraternity, dirty cops, lying media and other degenerates, all of whom will only lie straight when they're in their coffins.

Milat innocent -- when he and his 'relative' joke about blood on knives being human and who boast about being able to take off a person's head with one blow of a knife ? When other relatives speculate that Milat has at least 28 murdered-victims notched on his belt ? No, personally I feel it's as well he's in jail --- if in fact he spends much time there.

Milat a lone serial-killer ? When so much evidence and so many witness-statements from survivors point to there being several Milat-types operating out here in society ? When possessions belonging to murdered victims were seemingly collected from a variety of widely-spaced locations (later to be gathered for convenience in Milat's house). No, I don't think Milat is solely responsible for the murders (reported and unreported)

Milat stitched-up ? Let's look at who was stitched up. The victims and their families and loved-ones, first of all. They've been stitched-up, on permanent basis. Then the honest cops and journalists and lawyers (yes, there are some within each group, but for how long of course depends on how swiftly they're prepared to compromise). Then there's the rest of us - those of us who rely on all the above and who of course pay for all of them. We get stitched up every day.

Milat's served as convenient Boogey-Man. ' Rest easy, world. We've caught the killer and we've locked him away for life. It's safe to send your kids to Australia for an adventure now. It's safe to let your kids travel to our safe and glorious land. It's all been solved, resolved. All filed away, nice and neatly '.

And playing his role to the hilt is Milat and his wolfish grin for the cameras and his amputated finger and supposed jail-break attempts and outraged whines of innocence and demands for retrials, etc. The Boogey-Man's locked up for life -- sound the all-clear. Sit back cosily and be entertained by the books and tv specials featuring the Backpacker Murders

Meanwhile his accomplices fear nothing and no-one, shielded by connections and dirty-politics and most of all, by the limelight bestowed upon the grinning Boogey-Man/Fall Guy. The murders continue. Anyone who genuinely knows anything lives in fear that they or someone they love will have an 'accident'. And the young Milat-relative chooses a double-edged axe for his public-debut -- because who wants to live in the shadow of those who came before ? They used guns and knives. An axe is 'different' - sets the up-and-comer apart from those old guys.

But where and from whom did he gain his apprenticeship ? What has he seen ? What has he witnessed ? Who does he know ? Where has he been ? Who initiated him ? Who tutored him ? And most confounding of all --- who lost control of him ? Who was so careless, so brazen, so brave, so reckless, so negligent -- as to allow his crime to ever reach the eyes and ears of the public ?

Well written - I disagree with you on some points because my opinion suggests that there is truth in what the victims of wmk are saying.
No child makes up stories of such terrible abuse and wants to be abused like these kids were.
The laws convicting child murderers and sexual abusers are not tough enough in this country but wmks punishment is typical of what occurs.
As for this society we live in, individuals create or destroy that society with every decision we make and action we undertake either for good or bad.
The majority of people out there are decent and would be outraged to know what is going on behind the scenes in child protection and the criminal justice system that you describe.
People in public office accountable to the taxpayer should not be allowed to be members of secret societies.
Their members abandon the freedom to think critically and follow their heart ( moral code ), they lose touch with that still small voice that says this is right this is wrong, their conscience no longer exists.
How else could this wmk do all this evil to his own children?
People also assume ivan milat is a lot of things.
The truth is we do not know this man at all.
None of us gave birth to him raised him or were by his side 24/7, so we can only assume.
If you have ever been to court and been totally misrepresented then you will understand what I am saying here.
If you have ever been a victim of media propaganda or slander, gossip and lies you will understand what I am saying here.
If you have ever encountered violence, either by family or strangers and have lived in fear of your life and at also loved the perpetrator and thought they could change them then you will understand what I am saying here.
Ivan Milat continues to self harm because he thinks that this will get him justice, he thinks he is innocent and wants to show the courts that he will fight for that.
Ivan is trying to get the chance to tell his version of the truth. The fact that all legal avenues have been taken from him shows something is very fishy here.
The courts, media politicians and senior public servants are trying to prevent him from preparing that legal case and coming forward with a possibly different outcome.
If ivan milat is responsible for these murders or his brothers/sisters were then why is their dna not on the victims or anywhere else for that matter.
One thing is certain, whoever killed these people will be held accountable one day.
There must be other people involved and they can only be protected because they think they are above the law and justice.The law of the universe sees things very differently than what is permitted to take place here on planet earth.
You may or may not believe in God but I and so do many others and I have seen it time and time again, they will meet their rewards in this life and the next.
Thank you for your contribution dear anonymous.
There is another aspect to the God given conscience thats hope and faith, hope never dies neither does charity (true love ).
Peace to you.


On Youtube, there's a guy who claims he held a two hour conversation with Ivan Milat, who -- we're advised -- is a 'French speaking, wealthy businessman and solicitor'

Well that's news - to me at least. Anyone else aware of Milat's little-known accomplishments as described above ?

Did he pass the Bar exam whilst in prison ?

Has he always spoken French ?

And the wealthy businessman aspect ... yes, I've seen occasional reference to Milat's Mysterious Wealth. It might have been something referred to by investigators at one point, but there's scant information on the issue online

As to being a businessman -- anyone know what his alleged businesses consist of ?

Most of the articles detailing Milat and the murders claim he left school early and wasn't considered a promising student. He's been described as a hard-worker and his employment-record seems to consist of manual employment in abbatoirs, road-works, etc.

So --- have we've been told the true story of Ivan Milat ? Or is what we know a fiction ? And does his 'mysterious wealth' tie in with associations with criminal elements in government and the legal fraternity, etc. ? Did his association with such types commence back in the late 60's and the 70s ? Was he supplying victims to the wealthy and powerful back then ? Were the Belanglo murders copy-cat crimes committed by relatives and locals aware of Milat's activities ? Did he commit the Belanglo murders as a hobby outside what may have been his pimping victims to wealthy patrons ? Were the Belanglo victims 'spare bodies' deemed 'unsuitable' by wealthy clients ?

And what about Milat's alleged bisexuality ? This was stated as fact by a senior investigator and remains online. But what is the basis for such claims ?